Do you ever change your process to keep things fresh?

[Dinosaur David B]

This is one for the guys who record regularly, @eduardoritos, @Haffner, @Nick Layton @Bytor, @TravisW

Do you ever change your recording process to keep things fresh?  And if so, how?  Not talking about just using a new guitar/amp or piece of recording gear. I'm talking about process. 

The reason I ask is that for two FEINTS albums and one Last Chance album, I've always used the same process. How I got my guitar sounds for each song, how I worked out my solos, etc.

I know those processes produce good results, but for the second Last Chance album, everything about those processes felt so stale and uninspiring to me, I actually found myself procrastinating. So I've made several small changes.

I'll elaborate more in a bit, but I'm wondering if you all have gone through anything similar?

[TravisW]

It's interesting that you brought this up. I've been doing things largely the same way for so long, it just feels incredibly stale. Part of my problem is that so much of what I've been doing in the past 10 years has been me, me, me, and I might be getting bored with myself. I've tried addressing some of that by reworking my songwriting approach, which at least made things feel a bit fresher on that end. But I start getting ideas like getting a drummer and bassist and trying to record basic tracks live off the floor. The "in the room" idea has been stuck in my head for years, but I haven't pulled the trigger because for me it basically means putting together a band to make a recording that 38 people will listen to. I've made some headway in mixing and am largely getting more satisfied with my results in that area, but to be honest, tracking generally a bit of a bore after the initial demo phase. 

So I have no solutions, but I'm sure hoping somebody else does! 
 

[Dinosaur David B]

I've been doing things largely the same way for so long, it just feels incredibly stale. Part of my problem is that so much of what I've been doing in the past 10 years has been me, me, me, and I might be getting bored with myself. 

 

Yep. It was EXACTLY that for me, too. 

When we dropped the first Last Chance album, it fell like the proverbial tree in the forest. There was no one there to hear it, and if at made any sound, we sure couldn't tell -- even after paying for a PR campaign. When I finally got ready to do the follow-up -- a year later, my primary take away from the first album experience was: Enjoy the CREATIVE process -- because once that part's over, everything about pushing your music SUCKS.

To enjoy that process, I knew I wanted to do some things differently this time. Not because I wasn't happy with the results of the first album, but because doing the same things the same way all over again DID feel stale. And stale became a daunting hurdle to have to jump. I needed change for the sake of change just to beat the inertia enough to get interested and motivated again.  That's really NOT like me. I typically resist change, but this time I knew I needed it.

So I have no solutions, but I'm sure hoping somebody else does! 
 

I found some minor tweaks to my approach for getting sounds, and how I approach my solos. It's nothing earth shattering. It didn't make everything feel new and exciting, but I think it's made things a bit less stale. Again, I'll elaborate but I want to hear from some of the others first. 



 

[TravisW]

Enjoy the CREATIVE process=0.95em -- because once that part's over, everything about pushing your music SUCKS.

I agree 100%. There's some amount of satisfaction in getting something finished and listening to that final product, but when there isn't really anything after that as far as really getting it to an audience it feels like it costs a lot up front in motivation and pays little in return. Music exists to be listened to and when I'm the main listener, it's pretty easy for me to do a demo to 75%, let my brain fill in the gaps, and call it good enough. Why bother making something to a level good for public consumption when the public isn't ever likely to consume it? Because you love the process. 

When I first started recording, even just horrible 4-track recordings, I was enthralled with the extent that I could render what I was hearing in my head to tape. When I switched to digital, I was thrilled at the number of options I had for tracks and effects. My songs, imperfect as they were, were incredibly valuable to me and I was absolutely driven to bring them fully into existence. I had to do it. Listening to them come to life was a joy. But like anything else, it was all novel then and everything ages. 

After thinking about this a little more, I can point to a couple bright spots in my recent recording. One was when I did that snippet of "And the Cradle Will Rock" a few years back after EVH passed, and again the recent "Beneath a Never Setting Sun". The inclusion of actually playing my little Facebook Marketplace Hammond organ seems to have introduced a bit of novelty. I'm not a good keyboard player (I would actually argue that I'm not really a keyboard player at all) but introducing something different to write for, arrange, and record injected some much needed life into my work. Another thing was that both little projects went very quickly. On "Beneath a Never Setting Sun", I took it from a lyrical idea that I thought was kind of funny (an incredibly inside joke) to the 80% demo in two short writing sessions, and then re-recorded in 4 additional short sessions. So it seems that adding a bit of novelty and decreasing work time did freshen things up a bit. 

In kind of a related subject, I'm going to need to replace my recording PC and interface pretty soon, and I need to decide how to best spend my money. How I want to approach my process in the future really does change what I buy. Am I going to do the "live of the floor" thing? Will I continue down the road of mostly programming drums? But looking at this thread, and what I've written in it it looks like I need to plan on something other than my exact typical process, because planning on "typical" is increasingly looking like "unused". 


 
 

[Haffner]

Not sure if I'm on the mark topic wise, but...

The first Lyraka album I was a babe in the woods and had too-minimal knowledge of what a producer does. I was kind of hard on my producer, because when he did his job and suggested things (a couple of arrangement ideas) I dismissed out of hand because I didn't think of them. In fact, I originally planned to produce the second Lyraka album myself, but that's when I happily got knocked in the face with the fact that couldn't compete knowledge-wise with a producer of Andre's experience and education. I have since apologized to him and we've been a team for over 16 years now. On my latest album I was far more mature in this aspect and was asking him his opinion on many aspects. He also saved me from a total Cubase disaster, as my tempo and signature tracks went horribly wrong and he cleaned up my mess. All of the rhythm tracks on those albums were played by Andre with his downtuned Gibson Les Paul.

As Dave and I'm sure plenty of other people know, a good producer can be highly valuable, but it ups the ante when can also rock the hell out of a Les Paul. I got over my ridiculous ego garbage and ended up learning a hell of a lot about both music production and engineering; in fact, today I'm getting so close to just doing it myself.. but I hate the idea of losing Andre, he's so intuitive, really knows what I like and has countless times read my mind.

On the debut Lyraka I used my Uli Strat (the one with the HS pickups) alone. For the second album and DiGelsomina I integrated my Flying V a bit for leads (the V has a bizarre but cool way of sounding a bit like a cracked wah without any wah in site), and of course the MiJ '72 tribute Strat was the main axe for DiGelsomina.

For the two Lyraka albums I went overboard studying classical and Romantic-style composition and orchestration (as in big orchestras). I backed way off on the DiGelsomina album, mostly because I wanted to go more for the jugular. Also backed off hard on the synthesizers.

The first two albums including dealings with singers who...well, some of them weren't entirely fun to deal overall. There were multiple firings (and two rehirings lol). We started the latest album back in 2020, right when the COVID thing happened, and of course Robert had tons of trouble getting studios booked. But he was both an amazing professional and about the coolest guy you could ever talk to about Metal and pretty much anything else. And I was super happy with his performances (he's staying on board).
 
 
 
 
 
 

[Dinosaur David B]

 
All good points, Andy.

I agree that having a producer (or a coproducer, in my case) -- just having that second set of ears is very valuable. When I started with the first FEINTS stuff, I had total confidence in our songs and my vision, but I needed help achieving it. I certainly needed production and engineering help at that point. 3 albums later, I know a lot more. Enough to achieve it myself, but I still want Rob with me as my partner. Working in a vacuum it's too easy to fool yourself. I want that second perspective to keep me honest. Not to mention, no one has the monopoly on good ideas. 

And as a guitarist (in FEINTS), I was highly aware that I still getting back into to fighting shape as a player who'd never been the lead guitarist in a band. I used to tell Rob, "Don't let me get away with anything. If I don't nail a part, make me do it over until I do." 

Writing my musical memoirs shined a light of some of the hard-learned lessons I've learned over 40 years as a musician.  Perhaps the most important one (other than don't work with your spouse) is this:

Whenever possible, work with people you like, who can actually deliver what you want and need. When you find such people, nurture those relationships. Hang on to them, and keep working with them. 

A related part of that, I learned from you, Andy D. If you don't have the right people in your immediate circle, hire good professionals and pay them! 

Musicians always balk at paying for anything. It's SO stupid. I sympathize if paying is beyond one's means, but the people who bitch about the cost of this or that always seem to have money for the next new guitar. 

The difference between the HELL of trying to find a truly good/competent drummer, and just paying for a good PRO drummer -- who'll give you glorious drum tracks without any bullshit -- that experience is truly revelatory. And worth well more to me than another new guitar. Further, the new album coming has a cover song on it that required horn parts. I just went to Soundbetter, and found a guy, paid him a fair price, and boom. I had great horn parts. No fuss, no muss. 

That said, I was actually talking more about the RECORDING process itself, as it pertains to you, tracking guitars. That's the aspect I found so stale.

Every time I do a new album, I change some things around. Usually I upgrade some recording tools -- either the machine, the AI or some new plugins. I always do that. But those things don't change my guitar tracking PROCESS. 
 
 
 
 

[eduardoritos]

Good question, Dave:

My process in the late years is a mix of songwriting/demoing/recording at the same time.
I start with the first idea, make the basic song, and start with a copy/paste tracks of instruments. As I'm refining the song, I put new parts etc, until I decide the song is complete, so I record the real parts.

In order to have a more fresh process, my trick is how I compose the song. Some songs are bass line bassed; others are bassed on a drum pattern. Others, bassed on a chord progression. Not many times, the lyrics are first (usually, lyrics goe last).

Doing that way, each instrument leads you to a different feel. The bass groove inspires differently that a chord progression, etc.

What I realized is that, with the first idea of the song, the less you think on it, the better. Just do a full song. Two parts and a coda, or a three part. It's a song, and it's no more than 20 minutes of work.
After that, let it rest for a day, and take it again; if you still like it, you can add or leave something, defining drum grooves for each part, instrumentation etc, but, this is a production process bassed upon a raw and fresh song.

[eduardoritos]

Every time I do a new album, I change some things around. Usually I upgrade some recording tools -- either the machine, the AI or some new plugins. I always do that. But those things don't change my guitar tracking PROCESS. 
 
 
 
 

 

I've missed that; the tracking process I do usually is trying to mimic a live playing. I play the track at once. If there's a mistake, I follow the playing. Sometimens, the mistake it's a better thing that what you've planned (think you're actually recording live).
After the first take, I see if there's something to fix or not. If so, I fix it.
Usually I'm doubling the tracks, but thinking on Scorpions/Stones/G'n'R, aka: don't play it exactly the same way. The first track sticks to the rithm and, mostly on the previous moment of a part change,I play something different on the second track, taking a live feel to the whole.

After that, I start with the "arrangement" parts. Some solo overdubs, arpeggiated guitars, strumed funkier chords or something.

With all the guitar parts done, I try different mute/unmute tracks. Sometimes the funkier strum is what unexpectly runs the part and you can leave the rest muted. Or only one panned guitar...

Recording at home on a DAW let you the free (not studio time to pay, no track restriction) to record as many tracks as your imagination can think. Try an acoustic when usually you only have played electric. A sound can let you to a new perspective.

[Dinosaur David B]

I've missed that; the tracking process I do usually is trying to mimic a live playing. I play the track at once. If there's a mistake, I follow the playing. Sometimens, the mistake it's a better thing that what you've planned (think you're actually recording live).
After the first take, I see if there's something to fix or not. If so, I fix it.
Usually I'm doubling the tracks, but thinking on Scorpions/Stones/G'n'R, aka: don't play it exactly the same way. The first track sticks to the rithm and, mostly on the previous moment of a part change,I play something different on the second track, taking a live feel to the whole.

After that, I start with the "arrangement" parts. Some solo overdubs, arpeggiated guitars, strumed funkier chords or something.

With all the guitar parts done, I try different mute/unmute tracks. Sometimes the funkier strum is what unexpectly runs the part and you can leave the rest muted. Or only one panned guitar...

Recording at home on a DAW let you the free (not studio time to pay, no track restriction) to record as many tracks as your imagination can think. Try an acoustic when usually you only have played electric. A sound can let you to a new perspective.


 

That's all cool. What I'm asking is has any of that process gotten stale for you?  Have you done it that way so many times that it feels like you're just going through the motions?

At the end of the day, I (too) still end up with all the guitar tracks I've always created -- which at the high level can be thought of as rhythms guitars, solos, and ear candy. 

 
 

[eduardoritos]

I've missed that; the tracking process I do usually is trying to mimic a live playing. I play the track at once. If there's a mistake, I follow the playing. Sometimens, the mistake it's a better thing that what you've planned (think you're actually recording live).
After the first take, I see if there's something to fix or not. If so, I fix it.
Usually I'm doubling the tracks, but thinking on Scorpions/Stones/G'n'R, aka: don't play it exactly the same way. The first track sticks to the rithm and, mostly on the previous moment of a part change,I play something different on the second track, taking a live feel to the whole.

After that, I start with the "arrangement" parts. Some solo overdubs, arpeggiated guitars, strumed funkier chords or something.

With all the guitar parts done, I try different mute/unmute tracks. Sometimes the funkier strum is what unexpectly runs the part and you can leave the rest muted. Or only one panned guitar...

Recording at home on a DAW let you the free (not studio time to pay, no track restriction) to record as many tracks as your imagination can think. Try an acoustic when usually you only have played electric. A sound can let you to a new perspective.



 

That's all cool. What I'm asking is has any of that process gotten stale for you?  Have you done it that way so many times that it feels like you're just going through the motions?



 
 

 

Not at allí.

At least, for now, im still enjoying the process.

For the Next album, if that exist, im thimking on something more instrumented. Keys por something.