Out of tune bending.

[Tatosh Guitar]

In the past, there has been a general attitude put forth in interviews by SOME guitarists (more-so in the past, and not just YJM), that they "never worked on their vibratos." And regardless of what they say or said, it's BULLSHIT. 

I'm not sure why guys said those things, and similar things about other aspects, like acquiring speed technique. It may just be the competitive nature of players manifesting itself as an effort o create or enhance a mystique that they are somehow talented/gifted in a way most of us are not. But it's utter bullshit.  

 

It's part of the rock star persona. They need to appear better, naturally gifted or just plain godlike to the eyes of fans. 

This applies to lead singers as well. Rob Halford tries to make it seem like he has this god send pipes and he did nothing to get there. I am sure he has a one-of-a-kind throat, and god know I worshio him for that, but he tries to downplay his musical knowledge, when in fact he received musical instruction since he was very young. KK Downing wrote in his book than when he met Rob he instantly liked what he saw cause he had an harmonica in his hands and went "cool, this guy is an actual musician."

Dickinson also clearly worked with a vocal coach after he left Maiden in the early 90's, but he will deny it till his dying breath. Dio also claimed he never took a singing lesson in his life and that all his skill and power came from his trumpet playing days when he was a kid. I can only raise an eyebrow there... dude was a multi instrumentalist with monster vocal technique... I just don't buy it.

[Dinosaur David B]

In the past, there has been a general attitude put forth in interviews by SOME guitarists (more-so in the past, and not just YJM), that they "never worked on their vibratos." And regardless of what they say or said, it's BULLSHIT. 

I'm not sure why guys said those things, and similar things about other aspects, like acquiring speed technique. It may just be the competitive nature of players manifesting itself as an effort o create or enhance a mystique that they are somehow talented/gifted in a way most of us are not. But it's utter bullshit.  


 

It's part of the rock star persona. They need to appear better, naturally gifted or just plain godlike to the eyes of fans. 

This applies to lead singers as well. Rob Halford tries to make it seem like he has this god send pipes and he did nothing to get there. I am sure he has a one-of-a-kind throat, and god know I worshio him for that, but he tries to downplay his musical knowledge, when in fact he received musical instruction since he was very young. KK Downing wrote in his book than when he met Rob he instantly liked what he saw cause he had an harmonica in his hands and went "cool, this guy is an actual musician."

Dickinson also clearly worked with a vocal coach after he left Maiden in the early 90's, but he will deny it till his dying breath. Dio also claimed he never took a singing lesson in his life and that all his skill and power came from his trumpet playing days when he was a kid. I can only raise an eyebrow there... dude was a multi instrumentalist with monster vocal technique... I just don't buy it.

 

I don't think that's true about Bruce. I think he just started working in non-Steve Harris keys more suited to his voice.  He freely admits to studying vocals on his own, starting with notes from a girlfriend who was studying vocals. 

[Dr Nick]

I keep bringing up that son of mine - he's a better rhythm player than I am. He's excellent at the John Frusciante style strumming (eg Can't Stop) for example. 
He's also a good lead player, and I'd say he has the capacity to turn into a shredder (doesn't interest him though).

The one area he needs to work on is his vibrato, it's erratic and thin. He was more interested in playing the right notes, and that aspect slipped until fairly recently. Or he used the wang bar - but he's now got a several fixed bridge guitars. 
He's aware of it, but so far can't bring himself to ask me!
But it's interesting how different aspects of playing develop. 

[Bent out of shape]

Recall Yngwie criticising Jeff Becks pitch in a Guitar world feature 1994, I have a copy somewhere .....claiming every note in Cause we've ended was bent  out of tune,  don't recall its quite that bad, but of course he got totally slated for daring to suggest such a thing 

[Dinosaur David B]

Recall Yngwie criticising Jeff Becks pitch in a Guitar world feature 1994, I have a copy somewhere .....claiming every note in Cause we've ended was bent  out of tune,  don't recall its quite that bad, but of course he got totally slated for daring to suggest such a thing 

 

Andy Gavin says the same thing. He hears it! 
Given Jeff Beck's ridiculous level of intonation with the trem, I'm surprised he doesn't hear it. I don't hear it.

But I certainly believe that people with perfect pitch or very highly-attuned relative pitch DO hear these things. We are talking about hearing pitch at the cent level. Like anything else, it's probably a bell curve where a few people hear it, but the vast majority do not. 

There's a lot of imperfect music out there including a LOT of classics. It would be a shitty thing if everything was absolutely perfect. 

[Bent out of shape]

Agreed!

[Tatosh Guitar]

I remember that Yngwie interview. I too still have that issue somewhere. He sure opened a can of worms, I have seen him get rammed for it online for years.

to be fair, and IIRC, he claimed he didn’t know it was Beck and that he had never heard that track before (something I find quite surprising to this day). When they told him who he was he said it was unbelievable.

i remember the thread here, and Andy’s comments. And he said something along the lines of, regardless of what you think about Yngwie, or Beck, the fact remains that playing in tune is an absolute thing, you either are or aren’t. 

for what is worth, I hear it too. As I said in that post back then, I had never spent enough time listening to the original version to really notice, but once it became a topic here, I did, and now I can’t unhear it. Make of that what you will.


 

[Dinosaur David B]

FWIW, Amy can't hear it, and she has perfect pitch.  Richard Stanley once told me that:

Players were pointing out areas where they heard intonation issues that had errors of just 1 percent of the distance between adjacent frets. This is remarkable and sounds counterintuitive when you consider that this amounts to only 1 cent of pitch.  An equal-tempered half tone represents 100 cents of pitch.  More so, considering that we tolerate (barely) deviations in equal temperament many times that, such as major thirds that are some 12 cents sharp. 

Some do. Some don't.

Everyone around me in Brooklyn is a DJ. It's like if you live here, regardless of whatever else you do or how you make a living, you HAVE to be a DJ -- by law. 
 
DJs will tell you they cannot spin Van Halen, because Alex Van Halen cannot play in a consistent time/tempo to save his life (which is true, and you don't have to be a DJ to hear that). He's all over the place. Thus you can't line up his beats with anything before or after it in a DJ set. He's so far off, you can't even quantize it.  . And it's true of other famous rock drummers as well. Charlie Watts and Neil Peart -- fine.  Keith Moon -- forget it! 
 
Then there's Rick Beato's video that talks about how the tempo on Back in Black is inconsistent throughout the song by at least 4-5 bpm. No one cares. The FEEL is right and people love that song.

When you quantize it you lose the humanity in it. There's another YT guy who's a producer who shows you what classic songs sound like quantized. Perfect is usually not a good thing!



 

[eduardoritos]

Paul Gilbert don't dares to say he was bussy as hell practicing picking, vibrato and anithing involved on guitar playing.

You can't be aware of you're doing it, but, while you try to mimic somebone else's playing, you're practicing things.

Also, about DJ... DJs tend to favore in tune/in tempo playing because they need it to make mixes.

VH tempo floats with the groove and the pitch was o Ed's ears, because they dind't use a tuner. Ed guitar gave the tune for Mike bass, and Ed ear did the tuner job for the guitar (see Rick Beato video).

So, fuck DJ, start doing your music with your ears and fingers, and after, you can talk about music.

[Dinosaur David B]

So, fuck DJ, start doing your music with your ears and fingers, and after, you can talk about music.

 

I get that, and largely agree with you. But what I'm saying in the context of this discussion is that a LOT of the greats -- including Jeff Beck, many drummers, and for that matter EVH, don't always play perfectly.