Penatoninc Scales Positions

mr_crowleymr_crowley Posts: 6,655
edited December 1969 in Technique Forum
I think the positions for the root in Penatonic scales are weird....

I don´t get a thing at all!!

It is written the 2nd position but the note isn´t the 2nd what do they mean??

What do the positions mean??
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Comments

  • shred4Himshred4Him Posts: 159
    I am not really sure if I understand your question, but here is a link with scales and info about them.



    http://www.members.tripod.com/~johncomino/scales.htm



    I think people tend to make scales harder than they actually are. It is also easier to show than to explain sometimes.
  • What do the positions mean??


    You need to understand how the guitar neck is layed out to understand the positions.
    I threw me guitar out. Why bother? Why bother? Use it as a coffee table. Because I can't play it like that. 
    -- David St. Hubbins.
  • MAdXMAdX Posts: 2,041
    Relax :) , I don't know how much of a beginner you are, but it seems like you are digging into music theory pretty deep. If you want to learn simple pentatonic soloing, learn all the notes on the low E string and the basic minor pentatonic scale. Learn a few licks from that scale, and when you hear a song in the key of A for example you start playing the scale starting on A on the low E (5th fret). It's the way I did and it's great fun too. Sorry if I am underestimating your skills. :D



    image
  • They are just shapes to help visualise,all in all its all just five notes.
  • Music_Analyst" said:
    Ok, as a basic beginner lead guitar player, the only thing you really need to know is how the minor pentatonic scales work in the keys of E-minor and A-minor (if you play hard rock or metal you will find yourself soloing in these two keys, A-minor and E-minor, at least 75% of the time).



    Look at this diagram that MadX posted:



    image



    This diagram up there is called the "root position box shape for the minor pentatonic scale".



    To play basic solos in the key of E-minor, you need to take this "box shape" and move it so that all the left parts

    of the box are at the 12th fret because the 12th fret of the E-string is the "E" note that is the "root note" for the key of E-minor. So this diagram below shows the fret numbers that you will playing on the strings on your guitar (the strings from top to bottom in this diagram are: high E-string; B-string; G-string; D-string; A-string; low E-string).





     e -------12---------15--
    <br /> B -------12---------15--
    <br /> G -------12-----14------
    <br /> D -------12-----14------
    <br /> A -------12-----14------
    <br /> E -------12---------15--




    Now it is a good thing to memorize this shape as a general road map that you will use to help you navigate around this part of the fretboard (the 12th fret) when you are playing in the key of E-minor. But in reality, this "box shape" is just a way to help you visually find the 5 notes of the E-minor pentatonic scale on the fretboard.



    I have written out what the five notes of the E-minor pentatonic scale (played ascending) are below and I have made another diagram below that which shows you where you can find these 5 notes in the box:



    (1) the first note is the "E" note (this note can be found at the 12th fret of the high E-string and the 12th fret of the low E string and the 14th fret of the D-string). I have marked all the "E" notes using these "< >" kind of brackets, so whenever you see a <12> or a <14> in the box. You know that it is an "E" note.



    (2) the second note in the E-minor pentatonic scale is the "A" note. I have marked all the "A" notes using these "[ ]" kind of brackets, so you will know where to find them.



    (3) the third note in the E-minor pentatonic scale is the "D" note. I have marked all the "D" notes using these "{ }" kind of brackets, so you can find them



    (4) the fourth note in the E-minor pentatonic scale is the "G" note. I have marked all the "G" notes using these "( )" kind of brackets, so you will know where to find them.



    (5) the fifth note in the E-minor pentatonic scale is the "B" note. I have marked all the "B" notes using these "# #" kind of brackets, so you will know where to find them.



    After you have played the "B" note, you just play the next "E" note that is above it





     e -------&lt;12&gt;---------&#91;15&#93;--
    <br /> B -------&#40;12&#41;---------#15#--
    <br /> G -------&#91;12&#93;-----&#123;14&#125;------
    <br /> D -------#12#-----&lt;14&gt;------
    <br /> A -------&#123;12&#125;-----&#40;14&#41;------
    <br /> E -------&lt;12&gt;---------&#91;15&#93;--




    Try playing this box pattern a few times going up and down until you can remember in your mind what the five notes are ("E" note, "A" note, "D" note "G" note, "B" note). Once you remember what those 5 notes sound like, try to find other places on the fretboard (not at the 12th fret) where you can find those same notes and practice playing the pentatonic scale there.



    One good way to remember what an E note sounds like play this box pattern going going up and down and every time you play an E-note say "E-note" (out loud). Then every time you play an "A" note say "A-note", and keep on doing this until you've played all 5 notes.



    Another even better way is to use your voice to sing the notes that you are playing on guitar. Singing out-loud what you are playing on the guitar may seem silly at first, especially if there are other people watching you practice, but this is really the best way to learn to play music on the guitar. Every time you are practicing on guitar either sing something and then play it on the guitar, or play something on the guitar and then sing it, or both sing and play the same notes on the guitar at the same time.



    It will force you to learn how to sing and it will also force you to develop perfect pitch, so you can hear what any note is and immediately recognize it. Singing the notes that you are going to play on the guitar will also force you to develop "phrasing". If you try to sing too many notes for too long, you will run out of air in your lungs and you will have to put a temporary pause in the music that you are singing so that you can take a deep breath and get more air in your lungs. You want to do the same thing with your guitar solos and melodies. You want the guitar solos to also "breathe" and have open spaces in the melody to give the person who is listening to your music a temporary break. Tony Iommi once said that he uses "silence" to contrast "loudness" in his riffs and solos and if you listen to the opening riff in the song "War Pigs" from Black Sabbath's Paranoid album you can hear what I am talking about. The opening riff is just two chords followed by silence, but it is still a very effective riff.





    Singing something first and then playing it on the guitar will also force you to play actual musical melodies on the guitar that people who listen to your music will remember rather than just playing really fast and producing musical diarrhea all the time like some other guitar players tend to do.



    Also, to play the "A-minor pentatonic scale" in the key of "A-minor" you do the exact same thing that you did above, but instead of putting the left part of the box at the 12th fret, you put it at the 5th fret like in the diagram below:



     e -------5---------8--
    <br /> B -------5---------8--
    <br /> G -------5-----7------
    <br /> D -------5-----7------
    <br /> A -------5-----7------
    <br /> E -------5---------8--






    The guitar solo in the song "Stairway to Heaven" by Led Zeppelin starts out by using many of the notes from this A-minor pentatonic box at the 5th fret on your guitar, and I recommend trying to learn some of the beginning of that solo if you are just starting out with learning how to play guitar solos.



    Good luck, and I hope this advice helps you out!


    Pretty cool advice,though it has one problem,you say recognise an E and A etc and unless you have perfect pitch this is going to be virtually impossible to make any use of that method,probablys better would just be to recognise the intervals of the scales.







    So E minor pentatonic would be



    E-----------G

    B--------D

    G--------A

    D--------E

    A--------B

    E ----------G



    R---------b3

    5-------b7

    b3----- 4

    b7------ R

    4--------5

    R----------b3
  • mr_crowleymr_crowley Posts: 6,655
    Ok...thanks

    But noone have answer my question about the positions numbers....

    The different major penatonicscales have number as 1st position, 2nd position, 3rd position, 5th position and 6th position and I wondering why the scales get these names

    As an example: the root in the 2nd position scales isn´t the second note....... so why is it called the 2nd position penatonic major scale
  • mr_crowley" said:
    Ok...thanks

    But noone have answer my question about the positions numbers....

    The different major penatonicscales have number as 1st position, 2nd position, 3rd position, 5th position and 6th position and I wondering why the scales get these names

    As an example: the root in the 2nd position scales isn´t the second note....... so why is it called the 2nd position penatonic major scale


    You look into things way too deeply which causes you confusion,they are called positions just so you remember them,theres no theoretical reason for the names,just except that postion one will look like that and postition two will look this way,etc etc,just the same as theres no theoretical reason for dirctions to be called north ,west or up,left or whatever they are just6 names so we can communicate with others.
  • mr_crowleymr_crowley Posts: 6,655
    Aha... then I get it

    Thanks very much now I can move forward with my music theory
  • mr_crowleymr_crowley Posts: 6,655
    RSD" said:
    [quote="mr_crowley"]Aha... then I get it

    Thanks very much now I can move forward with my music theory


    I think you need to relax on the theory dude. You should just start by getting comfortable with guitar, practice fingering and positions, and not worry too much about theory. Just have fun and take it easy. :D[/quote]i



    Yes.... but I have moved a bit forward in my playing

    I playing a bit solos and things like that.....but I´m self-learned and want know more exactly why things are like they are, to play even more difficult things and write better songs and solos
  • Get your technique improved upon. Tag along with a friend to his guitar class and bug the hell out of the teacher.
  • mr_crowleymr_crowley Posts: 6,655
    ~Purple Haze~" said:
    Get your technique improved upon. Tag along with a friend to his guitar class and bug the hell out of the teacher.


    I have two friends playing guitar, they are self-learned too :roll:
  • mr_crowley" said:
    [quote="~Purple Haze~"]Get your technique improved upon. Tag along with a friend to his guitar class and bug the hell out of the teacher.


    I have two friends playing guitar, they are self-learned too :roll:[/quote]



    Theres nothing wrong with wanting to know what you are doing,I mean it makes perfect sense,but theory only labels musical ideas,make the music first then learn about why it sounds the way it does.

    Learn the basics but dont get too wrapped up in it or it could maybes even hold you back if you are trying to stick to the rules or what you consider the rules to be and in turn you are not going with the flow and enjoying playing what you want to play.
  • mr_crowleymr_crowley Posts: 6,655
    richierich" said:
    [quote="mr_crowley"][quote="~Purple Haze~"]Get your technique improved upon. Tag along with a friend to his guitar class and bug the hell out of the teacher.


    I have two friends playing guitar, they are self-learned too :roll:[/quote]



    Theres nothing wrong with wanting to know what you are doing,I mean it makes perfect sense,but theory only labels musical ideas,make the music first then learn about why it sounds the way it does.

    Learn the basics but dont get too wrapped up in it or it could maybes even hold you back if you are trying to stick to the rules or what you consider the rules to be and in turn you are not going with the flow and enjoying playing what you want to play.[/quote]



    Yes.... but I think it´s easier to memorize for example a solo if you know which scales it is and so on....
  • yngwie666yngwie666 Posts: 6,557
    mr_crowley" said:


    Yes.... but I think it´s easier to memorize for example a solo if you know which scales it is and so on....
    For sure ! I'm self taught, using many tabs for years and what I have memorized in my head are numbers and patterns, instead of notes and scales... :(
  • mr_crowley" said:
    [quote="richierich"][quote="mr_crowley"][quote="~Purple Haze~"]Get your technique improved upon. Tag along with a friend to his guitar class and bug the hell out of the teacher.


    I have two friends playing guitar, they are self-learned too :roll:[/quote]



    Theres nothing wrong with wanting to know what you are doing,I mean it makes perfect sense,but theory only labels musical ideas,make the music first then learn about why it sounds the way it does.

    Learn the basics but dont get too wrapped up in it or it could maybes even hold you back if you are trying to stick to the rules or what you consider the rules to be and in turn you are not going with the flow and enjoying playing what you want to play.[/quote]



    Yes.... but I think it´s easier to memorize for example a solo if you know which scales it is and so on....[/quote]



    Yes thats why I said learn the basics.
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