thigns you just can't seem to appreiciate in metal?

24

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  • SanchoSancho Posts: 18,678
    [quote author=Agrippa link=topic=9325.msg142377#msg142377 date=1256541480]
    About the detuning part...
    It´s a modern sound, don´t you think there were people who disliked distortion, at one time ?
    People who said, it you have to distort what you play, then don´t play ?
    And it´s just a sound. If a guitar is detuned and you don´t like it, fine, but it´s going to part of metal for years to come, has been since the invention a Metal music (Black Sabbath).
    Do you dislike Black Sabbath ?
    [/quote]

    Completely agree. And I'll extend the same argument to death metal/black metal vocals. Remember your parents yelling at you to turn that horrible noise with that shrieking singer down when you were listening to Accept or Judas Priest?
  • yngwie666yngwie666 Posts: 6,557
    What I don't like is a band labeled "Metal" when there's a DJ in it, like Linkin Park, it's like fashion faux pas.
  • BreakfastimeBreakfastime Posts: 2,152
    Cookie monster vocals:  I think they're funny.  But i don't regularly listen to or take seriously any music with this style vocal.  too goofy to take seriously.

    Other types of terrible metal singing:  The classic 'operatic' style sung by someone who can't sing.  When they can sing, it's fine with me.  But the classic 'metal singer' screeching off key, no thanks.

    Mosh pits:  I remember when they started.  Before that it was called 'doing the pogo' but then the skinheads showed up and started bashing into everyone and starting fights.  I guess DRI and the Circle Jerks were the bands who really promoted the style by using the image of a moshing punk in their band logos. The mosh pit can be amusing to watch but generally i stand away from the action anymore, 
    The 'wall of death" still cracks me up though.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wall_of_death_(moshing)#Wall_of_Death
    EDIT: since i just found out that the Smashing Pumpkins are 'anti-moshing', i'm changing my stance to a 'Pro-Moshing' opinion.  I hate the Smashing Pumpkins that much.

    Best mosh pit I ever saw was mid 80's Slayer on their second tour maybe, with a lineup of three opening bands who were all very mainstream AOR type acts, the group Victory (w/Charlie Huhn) played right before Slayer, and by then the crowd just couldn't take it any longer and was literally ripping the place (Liberty Lunch in Austin)to shreds.  The poor guys in Victory had never seen anything like that, bodies flying, bottles flying, people climbing the PA stacks and swandiving off into the crowd.  And being very negative to the guys onstage as well.  Victory cut their set real short, and when Slayer finally came out, the place went literally insane.  There was blood.  Lots of blood.

    Chainsaw solos:  I've seen several chanisaw solos!  Really!  Saw Wendy o Williams saw through cheap guitars several times.  I saw Joe Walsh host an all star jam with a bunch of guitarists all wanking away, and Joe goes offstage and returns with a chainsaw, fired that bitch up and solo'd into the microphone over a blues progression!  I barely missed Jackyl opening for ZZ Top, their singer did a chainsaw solo as well.  And one night onstage during a lenghty improv secction, i smelled exhaust.  Turned around to see our bassist waving a chainsaw on the other side of the stage. He was just "having some fun!"  scary shit!

    Double bass:  it can get old.

    I get tired of what i call "schtick" bands:  Pirates, Astronauts, Vikings, whatever.  I still get a kick out of 'em sometimes, I just don't
    want to go see them every week.  Austin is full of schtick bands, they draw good crowds and it's real funny, but geeeezzz does it seem like people patronize these sorts of bands way more than they patronize somebody who is just presenting music with no BS attached.  And that bothers me.


  • arch enemy: i can't get past the vocals, either.  their guitarists may be shit hot, but i'll never know as long as that shit is part of their sound.

    having said that, all cookie monster vocals are not the same. artfully employed for effect can be cool as opposed to going full-bore all the time.

    and it's not just the timbre of the voice, what i find most off-putting is the LACK OF MELODY.  lack of melody for me would qualify as no intervals, just one "pitch" pounded over and over, like someone reading a sentence.  it started out as a gimmick (like rap and hip hop) but zillions have now made careers out of it.

    detuning?  i might be willing to try it if i had an army of highly qualified, well paid guitar techs at my beck and call. but don't expect me to be fucking with it anytime soon, that is time i could be practicing or playing.

    satan?  how many times can you yell "fire!" in a theater before it gets old and people start to ignore it?  its shock value has worn off from over-use.

    i have no problem with double bass...it's only problematic for me when over-used.

    crosses: i love 'em.  but not upside down.

    make up? oh, whatever, it's theatrics.



  • Seven MoonsSeven Moons Posts: 8,828
    [quote author=Sancho link=topic=9325.msg142388#msg142388 date=1256551021]
    [quote author=Agrippa link=topic=9325.msg142377#msg142377 date=1256541480]
    About the detuning part...
    It´s a modern sound, don´t you think there were people who disliked distortion, at one time ?
    People who said, it you have to distort what you play, then don´t play ?
    And it´s just a sound. If a guitar is detuned and you don´t like it, fine, but it´s going to part of metal for years to come, has been since the invention a Metal music (Black Sabbath).
    Do you dislike Black Sabbath ?
    [/quote]

    Completely agree. And I'll extend the same argument to death metal/black metal vocals. Remember your parents yelling at you to turn that horrible noise with that shrieking singer down when you were listening to Accept or Judas Priest?
    [/quote]

    Can't agree more (except that in my parent's house, the troublemaker was Lemmy :biggrin2:)  I have no problem with detuning, as Agrippa said, it's been there for years, it all started with Master of Reality...

    I think it takes a while to get used to new sounds (and the older you become, the more difficult it is, just as learning radically new things). I clearly remember how I felt initially repelled by thrash metal when it arrived around here, in 1983-1984, with Kill'em All, Ride the Lightning, Fistful of Metal...  There was less melodic content than in classic metal, the rhythmic patterns were different, the sound itself was an unusual wall of palm muted riffing. But I recognized that something strong was going on, worth the effort of several careful listens, and after a while I got into thrash big time (helped by the many dubious releases of "classic" bands at that same time)...

    I've had essentially the same experience with growling vocals. It took me some time to overcome my initial reluctance. Now I can live with cookie monster stuff, and I've even grown to really enjoy some, when I'm in the right mood, and in the right context.
    Arch Enemy have been mentioned in several posts as the typical case of a band whose growling vocals turn people off. The music in itself is a brilliant mix of classic metal, thrash, and death ingredients. Musicianship is awesome, the Amott brothers make the most exciting twin guitar attack I've heard since Priest and Maiden,  working in team but sufficiently distinctive from each other. As for the growling vocals of Liiva or Angela... I've often wondered how they would sound with a "classic" vocalist...  no clue. They would probably lose an interesting peculiarity.  The current orientation of AE's music is overall more accessible than pure death metal (I'd rather call it brutal classic metal with thrash ingredients) and Angela's cookie monster vocals work perfectly with most of the songs, especially when sheer aggression is required, not so much with some other ones... but they're now a defining part of AE's sound. I was also amazed by her stage presence and energy on their recent live DVD. As an old school metalhead, I find loads of excitement in AE's music (and the music is what attracted me first to the band), but the vocals and melo-death ingredients forced me into new territory, and I can appreciate that. To be honest, I'm a fan.


    Back to topic, here's what I can't stand in metal:

    1.- euro-pop/AOR/power metal
    2.- constant double bass drumming, and excessive amounts of bass/drums in live mixes
    3.- semi-operatic female voices in the Nightwish/Evanescence style (this is connected to item 1 above). I love to hear girls who really sing metal with attitude and/or aggression...
    4.- bands with make-up: monster make-up, zombie make-up or whatever you want, I've always found it terribly embarrassing...  Alice Cooper might be the only one who's able to do it with a true theatrical sense and over the top humour... just my opinion, of course.



  • CyberDinoCyberDino Posts: 395
    I'm not a fan of cookie monster vocals either, altough there are some exceptions.

    I do like some vocalists who alternate between death growls and clean passages... Opeth's Mikael is the best one in business, when it comes to this, IMO.







    (For those who can't stand the growls, just skip straight to the middle of the song)
  • IsaacIsaac Posts: 3,088
    [quote author=CyberDino link=topic=9325.msg142462#msg142462 date=1256604142]
    I'm not a fan of cookie monster vocals either, altough there are some exceptions.

    I do like some vocalists who alternate between death growls and clean passages... Opeth's Mikael is the best one in business, when it comes to this, IMO.







    (For those who can't stand the growls, just skip straight to the middle of the song)
    [/quote]

    i like opeth. akerfeld is the only growly guy i can listen to. i really don't know why.
  • CyberDinoCyberDino Posts: 395
    [quote author=Isaac link=topic=9325.msg142466#msg142466 date=1256606530]
    [quote author=CyberDino link=topic=9325.msg142462#msg142462 date=1256604142]
    I'm not a fan of cookie monster vocals either, altough there are some exceptions.

    I do like some vocalists who alternate between death growls and clean passages... Opeth's Mikael is the best one in business, when it comes to this, IMO.







    (For those who can't stand the growls, just skip straight to the middle of the song)
    [/quote]

    i like opeth. akerfeld is the only growly guy i can listen to. i really don't know why.
    [/quote]


    Have you heard Scar Symmetry? They had a real monster on vocals... Agressive growls and amazing clean passages.




    Another one that comes to mind is Devin Townsend. He never really sounds like a Death or Black Metal singer, but when it comes to screaming, he's ace.
  • IsaacIsaac Posts: 3,088
    this is just what i mean by growly vox bugging me. because this guy can ACTUALLY SING! yes, i understand the growly vox is his decision, and its his music, but for me, i think its just a total waste.

    clean singing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VE9CPXoloRs

    growls: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZE_FXHLHP8

    its like knowing another language, but NEVER bothering to use it in any capacity.
  • CyberDinoCyberDino Posts: 395
    [quote author=Isaac link=topic=9325.msg142564#msg142564 date=1256687313]
    this is just what i mean by growly vox bugging me. because this guy can ACTUALLY SING! yes, i understand the growly vox is his decision, and its his music, but for me, i think its just a total waste.

    clean singing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VE9CPXoloRs

    growls: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZE_FXHLHP8

    its like knowing another language, but NEVER bothering to use it in any capacity.
    [/quote]


    The interesting thing here is that this guy was replaced by TWO vocalists. One for the growling, one for the clean singing. I haven't checked them out, yet.


  • ingveingve Posts: 1,616
    Operatic female vocalists like Tarja Whateverhernameis. Can't stand 'em.

    Band like Nightwish. Can't stand 'em. They have a very strong whiff of "Lord of the Rings" about them. And I friggin' despise "Lord of the Rings" and all that childish fantasy rubbish. 

    Growlers and Cookie Monsters. Can't stand 'em either.

    Ditto bands that howl on in every song about hatred, fighting, being tough, "Show me respect motherfucker or I'll rip out your throat", "You looked at me the wrong way, now I'm gonna tear your arms off" and all that bullshit.


    Oh yeah - bands that go "unplugged" to show how artistic they really are. And bands that play with an orchestra, but they just play exactly what they would normally play and the orchestra jams along in the background.



     



  • SystemSystem Posts: 10,067
    Here's my list:

    Power ballads - WTF?
    Guys who are prettier than the girls backstage
    Overuse of keyboards to thicken the guitars up - mostly an 80's problem, guaranteed to take the edge right off whatever heavy riff the guitarist plays no matter how good he is.
    Rap metal - Rap is not metal.  Fuck you Limp Bizkit.
    Nu Metal/Mallcore/Linkin Park/Slipknot etc.
    Technique for technique's sake
    Unaccompanied guitar solo spots in live shows
    Lack of dynamics in more recent metal bands - it's all fullbore all the time.
    "National Anthem Metal" - this relates to the dislike of major keys, etc.  Dragonforce is probably the most obvious example thereof.
    Bands that sound like other bands.  For example, there's tons of Dream Theater clones.  I don't need that.


    Stuff I dig:
    Cookie Monster vox and various derivatives thereof.
    Screaming high vox ala Halford and Ripper.  That shit RULES.
    Bands that sound better than their records live.  Priest, for example.
    You can't have metal without sex, drugs, and satan.  So you better be singing about banging sluts or about killing everything in your path and laying waste to all who oppose you.  There is no room for sensitivity in metal!  If you want to be a big fat pussy, join a prog metal band, or just go kill yourself.

    Metal is never saying "I'm sorry".  Metal apologizes to NO ONE.  This is why Kurt Cobain is not metal.
    Alice in Chains on the other hand, is metal.

  • I actually think a chainsaw solo ala Jackyl, is metal as hell.

    Also -- no rap in my metal please. Anthrax -- fuck that.
    In the midst of the sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament.
  • EugenicScumEugenicScum Posts: 5,323
    Mayor is metal. That is all.
    Check out my band: Bevar Sea
  • SystemSystem Posts: 10,067
    [quote author=Dinosaur David B link=topic=9325.msg142626#msg142626 date=1256773298]
    I actually think a chainsaw solo ala Jackyl, is metal as hell.
    [/quote]

    FUCK YEAH it is!

    Also -- no rap in my metal please. Anthrax -- fuck that.
    At least Anthrax did an awful lot of cool shit before they did the rap stuff, and as far as I know it was only a couple of songs - one was a joke, and the other one was at least OK since they had Public Enemy on it.  Spreading the Disease and Among the Living were pretty damn metal.

    Bands that NEVER did anything cool, like Limp Bizkit - fuck them, hard.  With a square strap on.
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