thigns you just can't seem to appreiciate in metal?

IsaacIsaac Posts: 3,088
cookie monster vocals. case in point, arch enemy. they're coming to town to a small venue, tix are cheap, and its all floor, i could stand in front of the amott brothers (who are FANTASTIC dino players) and watch them rip the whole night. but i just don't think i will be able to deal with the death metal vocals for 3 hours. and the opener is exodus.  :weep: :metal:

its sucha waste for me because both the amott bros have melodic dino outlets in spiritual beggars and Armageddon. and from what i've heard so far, its great! I guess death metal pays the bills. both these guys are 100% influenced by the same guitar players we listen to, and both are dino monsters! its really too bad that their melodic output is not as well known. arch enemy has been here a few times, never spiritual beggars or Armageddon.

another thing is mosh pits. i just don't like em. i tend to stay away from them whenever i can. i go to concerts for the music and the atmosphere, i shouldn't have to worry about getting shit kicked.

have any of you guys ever experienced moshes with more melodic bands? does it exist? as far as metal goes, i've really only been to thrash and death shows, apart from dream theater, and they played ballads all night, it was great to see a bunch of metalheads holding out their lighters and singing along to the sappiest of DT ballads (i did too).


Post edited by Agrippa on
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Comments

  • EugenicScumEugenicScum Posts: 5,323
    I've seen Maiden three times here, and they had moshpits going every time.

    Things I just can't seem to appreciate in metal:

    AOR-power-pop-euro type metal
    Too much major key in metal in general
    Pirate metal all these phoney polka metal bands
    Most mainstream meathead metal and their shitty breakdowns and forced "mosh parts" and "slow parts"
    Bands that play traditional heavy/melodic metal with growled vocals.
    Clean and/or oversaturated and overproduction
    I can't appreciate that dexterity = prog in metal. Prog was not just about instrumental dexterity of individual players back in the 70s.
    Constant double bass drumming
    Vocalists cramming way too many lines and not letting the riff breathe
    Check out my band: Bevar Sea
  • AgrippaAgrippa Posts: 5,941
    +1 Eugenic.
    I agree to a tee.
    Except: Bands that play traditional heavy/melodic metal with growled vocals...
    Certain doom bands use growled vocal while the arrangement is pure vintage Black Sabbath to great effect imho.
    And I like it, somewhat.

    I myself generally disliked growl vocals for some time, but then I figured that if I could stand listening to Dokken, Ratt and other pussy vocal´ed bands for the sake of the guitar and general vibe, I could do the same with modern metal, and lo and behold; now just about every record I listen to has growl, unless it´s my vintage MSG, UFO, BOC, Rush records or other bands like that.
    Growl is really many things, and some are great at it, some are not.
    It has to match to general vibe of the music, imo.
  • Constant double bass drumming

    Totally agree, it really bores me when a drummer plays really fast double bass through the entire song without any feel.
  • EugenicScumEugenicScum Posts: 5,323
    [quote author=Agrippa link=topic=9325.msg142271#msg142271 date=1256459075]
    +1 Eugenic.
    I agree to a tee.
    Except: Bands that play traditional heavy/melodic metal with growled vocals...
    Certain doom bands use growled vocal while the arrangement is pure vintage Black Sabbath to great effect imho.
    And I like it, somewhat.

    I myself generally disliked growl vocals for some time, but then I figured that if I could stand listening to Dokken, Ratt and other pussy vocal´ed bands for the sake of the guitar and general vibe, I could do the same with modern metal, and lo and behold; now just about every record I listen to has growl, unless it´s my vintage MSG, UFO, BOC, Rush records or other bands like that.
    Growl is really many things, and some are great at it, some are not.
    It has to match to general vibe of the music, imo.
    [/quote]

    Yeah definitely. Half the music I listen to has a variety of gruff vocals so I know. I'm talking about bands like Children of Bodom that aren't really dark and twisted to warrant growled vocals. Arch Enemy's newer albums have a thrashy Megadeth vibe but with over the top growls. Drawing a parallel from another era, Howling Wolf and Tom Waits can growl, BB King shouldn't, know what I'm saying? It's got to suit the music.
    Check out my band: Bevar Sea
  • SanchoSancho Posts: 18,678
    [quote author=EugenicScum link=topic=9325.msg142267#msg142267 date=1256450791]
    I've seen Maiden three times here, and they had moshpits going every time.
    [/quote]
    We've had moshpits at Monster Joe gigs... :doh:

    [quote author=EugenicScum link=topic=9325.msg142267#msg142267 date=1256450791]
    Pirate metal all these phoney polka metal bands

    Constant double bass drumming

    Vocalists cramming way too many lines and not letting the riff breathe
    [/quote]
    Yes, make that YES! on these three points.

    I have no problem with Death Metal vocals, but in the case of Arch Enemy the music sometimes doesn't fit the vocal style.
    On their albums with original singer Liiva, the band play full on Death Metal and it works. But lately, Amott has been trying to inject ever more classic metal influences in the music, and it doesn't always work. I have the same reservations with Michael's leads as well. His Schenkerisms can be very at odds with the song. Luckily Christopher is there to rip my head off every single time.
    The last album was a step in the right direction though.
  • I don't get moshing at all.
    In the midst of the sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament.
  • BaddstuffBaddstuff Posts: 1,305
    well, I come from the Accept, Priest, Loudness, Anvil (first album) early Sabbath school of metal. I cannot take the death metal growl 'vocals' and speed
    for the sake of speed. Someone mentioned too much double bass drumming and I agree. The effect wears off after a while. I also have no idea what
    the deal is with mosh pits nor do I care to learn. For me a band like Accept is as close to a great, classic metal sound as there is.
  • VandenbergVandenberg Posts: 3,897
    the whole satanism thing, especially with regard to bands that aren't.
  • I hate it when bands yell "Guitar!" then unexpectedly tear into an accordion solo.  Pisses me off every time.

    Hi guys.

  • IsaacIsaac Posts: 3,088
    [quote author=pooch guy link=topic=9325.msg142350#msg142350 date=1256520252]
    I hate it when bands yell "Guitar!" then unexpectedly tear into an accordion solo.  Pisses me off every time.

    Hi guys.


    [/quote]

    lol.  :rotflmfao:
  • ingveingve Posts: 1,616

    How do you feel about chainsaw solos then?

    :rotflmfao:
  • pprovostpprovost Posts: 2,638
    [quote author=Vandenberg link=topic=9325.msg142311#msg142311 date=1256495059]
    the whole satanism thing, especially with regard to bands that aren't.
    [/quote]

    Alice Cooper put it best:



    [quote author=pooch guy link=topic=9325.msg142350#msg142350 date=1256520252]
    I hate it when bands yell "Guitar!" then unexpectedly tear into an accordion solo.  Pisses me off every time.

    Hi guys.
    [/quote]

    :rotflmfao:

    Sound like grounds for a new thread called "Things You Would Never See Or Hear In Metal".
    I think sometimes if you try to play too technically, you lose something in the music - like you're playing for another guitar player. I like to play for people. The more sophisticated and mature guitarists become, the more they go with the feel.

    - Ritchie Blackmore


  • T-MANT-MAN Posts: 271
    1. Trend-Metal (I.e.- Pirate metal,Viking/Pagan metal,Finnish "melodic death" metal,metalcore/redneck American metal,etc.)
    2. Growling/Screaming/Shrieking "vocals"
    3. Focus on horror-movie inspired imagery (I.e.- monster makeup,etc.)
    4. Severely detuned guitars (or 7 and 8 string guitars)

    At the end of the day- good guitar playing is good guitar playing and even the most tired,cliche ridden music genres can have elements that are worthy of appreciation. Metal as I know it,however,is dead and gone. Several of the bands I loved as a kid now have adopted one or more trendy modern metal elements. Exodus is a good example...detuned guitars..."hardcore" vocals,metalcore inspired breakdown riffs and less interest in soloing. It's sad really...very sad.
  • Fully agree with T-MAN and Vandenberg.
    if they need to detune their guitars that much they should play bass instead

    Double bass like ACCEPT's Fast As A Shark is great but most metal bands don't get that.

    I don't like the sound either. Too gain-y.
  • AgrippaAgrippa Posts: 5,941
    I totally agree with those people who are fed up with the whole "satanism" thing.
    first, what is it ? Yes for an orthodox christians it must be scary, but really, what is it ?
    Nonsense, that´s what.
    If it isn´t dialectic to a degree where it wouldn´t even exist without christianity, it´s most likely nonsense.
    Alice Cooper has got it somewhat wrong though, there isn´t really, to the best of my knowledge, a black metal scene in Denmark.
    Unless he goes back to when Mercyful Fate started.
    I have a very good buddy who played with King Diamond before he started Mercyful Fate, in a band called "Black Rose", and he has said many times to me, that with Kim (Kings real name) the whole satanism thing was a publicity stunt, and it worked, still do I guess.
    I have another buddy who actually played in a Black Metal band (their demos and first record was BM, then they drifted into a more melodic new waveish inspired direction, quite good imho).

    He has met some of those legendary characters from the Norwegian Black Metal scene, and as cooper notices, they are usually very nice and polite people.
    I guess it´s hard to be evil to everyone all the time. :evillaugh:


    I personally have met more then a handful persons who claimed to be satanists, and I usually piss them off by starting off by asking them if they are fishermen ?
    Simon-Peter was a fisherman, and demanded, according to myth, that he´d be crucified upside down, so his symbol is actually an upturned cross.
    The upturned cross IS a Christian symbol, which amuses me a lot, when I see these brooding and dark-clad gothic young people with their up-turned crosses around their necks at a concert or festival.
    I come from a small villiage by the sea in denmark, were there where quite a few fishing boats when I grew up, and I have actually seen old boats with an upturned cross painted on ´em, because their protective saint was simon-Peter.
    Did you know this ?
    Most self-claimed satanists certainly don´t.
    :fu:

    But generally, I just dislike most too elaborate images in metal, if it´s the testoterone sculpted bodies of manowar or satanism, anarchy or even excessive drinking.
    Kiss is NOT too elaborate imho, I LOVE their image, as do most Black Metal bands obviously.

    About the detuning part...
    It´s a modern sound, don´t you think there were people who disliked distortion, at one time ?
    People who said, it you have to distort what you play, then don´t play ?
    And it´s just a sound. If a guitar is detuned and you don´t like it, fine, but it´s going to part of metal for years to come, has been since the invention a Metal music (Black Sabbath).
    Do you dislike Black Sabbath ?
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