I suppose I am just a 4 input Marshall type of guy

Tatosh GuitarTatosh Guitar Posts: 2,313
edited December 2020 in Amplifier Discussion
A couple days ago the other thread on the Marshall signature models got me thinking on this but I am doing a different post to avoid taking over the other one. As most of us into heavier Dino playing, I grew up listening to Marshalls on the albums I worshiped. For the most part I gravitate for stuff made from the late 60's to the late 80's, and that's the sound on most of those.

I am very lucky cause the first Marshall I got my hand unto is a Super Bass from 1969. Less than a year later, I also acquired a 1971 Super Lead. I still have them, but unfortunately they aren't very practical and I haven't used them in years. Non Master volume amps are painfully loud and a drag to lift as you get older (not to mention the 4x12 cabs that usually come with the package).

Still, there's something about that tone. EL34 amps have certain sonic qualities that are appealing to my ears. And the way a traditional, 4 input "Plexi" style pre amp sounds seems to be the most appealing to my ears, even more so than the also often worshipped JCM 800 2203 does.

Now don't get me wrong. I love those sounds on the 80's records, but I have come to find out that many times, what I though was a JCM 800 was actually an older Super Lead pushed with an overdrive for boost or some other studio trickery. Warren, Lynch and a few others did this for many of their best received albums. And of course, I love the tones Schenker, the Young Brothers, the Aerosmith guys, Uli or Blackmore got in the 70's with their traditional, original non master volume Marshalls. And I won't even go the EVH route, we all know about that. 

Anyway, now that I am doing most of my practice in the digital realm, with IK's  Amplitube, I noticed the amp that gave me the most pleasing results was the one labeled as the "Red Pig" which is of course modeled after the 200 watt Marshall Major that Blackmore employed to destroy Ian Gillian's hearing. I might use their versions of the JCM 800 or the silver jubilee models as well, and that last one is quite good itself, but the Red Pig is way better to me.

A few weeks ago IK had a huge sale (I posted about that here) and I got the MAX version of their software. Everything but a couple things was unlocked, and now I have access to untold numbers of amps and effects that I probably won't be able to go thru for the rest of my natural life. Still, i checked the Soldano, I checked the 5150, all good, no problem with them. But then I downloaded some user presets from a Facebook forum, and started trying them. i didn't bother to check which amps were used for these, I was just going thru the presets to see if there was something I could use. 

I finally settled on one I liked, labelled "Eddie" by whoever created it. Quite good sounding and very versatile, not only for VH stuff at all. I went and checked what was used for this, and there you go, IK's version of a 60's 100 watt Marshall, found on the Jimi Hendrix pack, beefed with an echoplex and a phase 90, among other things. Adding an EQ, I can get very convincing Rhoads, Lynch and the like tones and some other higher gain stuff from the 80's. 

So my ear isn't fooling me. Even when not using the real thing, even on the digital realm I seem to go for non master volume plexi style tones, and while the amp sim might be getting hot rodded by all the extra stuff in the chain, it still retains those certain qualities that I go for.

In the end, I was convinced that if I were to get one of those mini Marshalls released recently, I was gonna get the JCM 800, but now I am thinking I would probably go for the Plexi, a smaller, more usable version of the big ones I already have.




Post edited by Tatosh Guitar on

Comments

  • StitselStitsel Posts: 2,190
    This is awesome, thanks for sharing your thoughts on this....I've kind of came to the same conclusions myself, even though I rave about my JVM ( it's just so versatile ....) I've often pondered getting a 4 input Plexi type Marshall & just using that as a launch pad for whatever.....I'm actually kind of intrigued by the 1987 model; it's a 4 input 50 watt EL34 simple Marshall, a bit smaller than it's big brothers but can blast well enough I'm sure...... I need to look into that IK Amplitube pack you mention too.....
  • Stitsel said:
    This is awesome, thanks for sharing your thoughts on this....I've kind of came to the same conclusions myself, even though I rave about my JVM ( it's just so versatile ....) I've often pondered getting a 4 input Plexi type Marshall & just using that as a launch pad for whatever.....I'm actually kind of intrigued by the 1987 model; it's a 4 input 50 watt EL34 simple Marshall, a bit smaller than it's big brothers but can blast well enough I'm sure...... I need to look into that IK Amplitube pack you mention too.....
    While I wouldn't mind a 1987 myself, a 50 watt non master Marshall is only 6 or so decibels less loud than a 100 watter, which is not practical for me at all these days. That mini plexi they came up with last years (20 watts?) would still be hella loud, but it might be more suited for me, I suppose.

    Now don't get me wrong, if you are used to playing tube amps, the IK stuff will still be severely lacking. Thing is, with a baby home and another one arriving in a few months, headphone practice is my sole practice, and for that, Amplitube gets close enough so that I can enjoy playing, but if I was to record, I would still use the big heads and I would probably mic a cab if possible. But this is for practice only, and in some sorta twisted comparison, like your JVM, it's a versatile setup and gets me close enough for my current needs. 

    For what is worth, IK just released a new version of Amplitube and those using it are raving on the fact that you can load external IRs now and that all the amps got way closer to the real thing. i have still to check that out, but I'll post about it here when I eventually do it. 
  • StitselStitsel Posts: 2,190
    edited December 2020
    Digital practice software doesn't bug me at all.... I have a raging stack, a few other tube amps etc. ......even my little Class 5 combo gets super loud when you open it up....! But, I don't care about any of that stuff....I too have kids, a family etc.  & am not a recording/touring musician, more a hobbyist that likes to crank up some metal guitar.... so I don't need total authenticity or whatever; I just need to be able to dial up a good tone & blast, ya know? I do 90% of my playing with my little Marshall CODE 25, it's an excellent sounding little combo & sounds even better the louder you crank it....but it gets those tones at very low volumes too. I'm actually thinking of scoring a pair of those BOSS WAZA headphones, but I'm maybe holding out to see what upgrades they might soon come out with....& maybe someday a price reduction, even slightly....? 
    But back to the 4 holers: I'm way intrigued by the 50 watter; volume difference in one of these is only slight compared to a 100 watter, I'm sure.....I have a 1978 JMP 50 watter ( 2 input ) & the thing is fucking louder than hell.... cannot tell a difference between it and my JVM when cranked, frankly....but the cleaner, more Plexi-ish tones for this NMV head are a great starting point sonically, you can dirt these things up no prob.....but having a nice baseline cleanish Plexi tone is kind of key I think.....
    Post edited by Stitsel on
  • I was looking forward to those WAZA headphones and was kinda pissed when they were released just a few weeks after I had gotten my iRig, that is until I saw the price LOL. The moment they become more affordable I might bite that bullet myself.

    I was one of those guys who wouldn't play anything but tube amps. Even after I stopped using the big heads, most of my playing was thru a small tube fender combo with an OCD and a tube screamer in front (those two combined make for an excellent lead sound, the OCD for dirt and the TS as a boost) With age I have come to realize two things: 1. You take the tools for what they are for. Not everything has to be a raging stack, and 2. Digital technology is getting close. I have seen guys play live with a Helix and that things sounded great. I also saw Accept live and Wolf is using a Kemper. Would he have sounded better with a real tube amp? Maybe, but I would probably have been the only guy in that concert who would have noticed or cared. 

    The 50w vs 100w thing is basically a question of tone, not volume. 100 watters have more headroom, and some people like that. Also, 50 watters are cheaper to maintain (less power tubes) and that can make a difference in the long run. Before I knew any better, i didn't understand how players in the same bad could get away with one playing a 50 watter and the other a 100 watter. i thought the bigger amp would be twice as loud. Oh, the innocence of youth. Yngwie and Schenker played all their classic stuff with 50w amps, as far as I know. 

    Your 1978 JMP is one of my dream amps. Congrats. You mentioned it has 2 inputs. That's a Master Lead model, if I am not mistaken. it should have the circuit later remarketed as the JCM 800 2204. While I seem to prefer the earlier non master volume circuits, as I mentioned before, I wouldn't mind an 800 at all hehe. 
  • StitselStitsel Posts: 2,190
    edited December 2020
    Hey, been busy with Holidays & all & meant to reply to this thread....yes my JMP 50 watt is a 2 input, 2204....which is basically a 50 watt JCM800, before they renamed them that.Smoking amp, I'm not getting rid of it even tho I've put it on the shelf, because it really has that meat & potatoes Marshall magic we all love & crave.....about a year ago, I dragged it out of mothballs & wanted to see how it sounded on top of my nifty new little Marshall 2x12 cab.....it fit on top beautifully & still sounded glorious, even though I hadn't played through it since I got my JVM, back in 2012 or so....wow, what a reminder of why I kept it! It's a 1978 & they built 'em to last back then, that's for sure.Maybe I'll post some pics some day, it's a bit tattered but still in pretty decent shape.I wish to someday have it all gone through & tuned up, all cosmetic blemishes fixed etc. It still has the same tubes in it that it came with when I bought it & it still sounds killer.....like, really really killer. It's bone stock as far as I know, & I kind of have a thing for stock amps too.Certainly sounds great as is & I would never do anything to my JVM, although there's forums everywhere out there with guys that feel doing just that is a must, so what do I know? I had picked up that little 2x12 cab thinking no way will it sound that great, maybe will need to put some other Celestions in it or something, but it sounds great....'cuz it's an MX or something, like $350 & I needed something better for my little Peavey 6505MH (lunchbox head) because the Peavey 2x12s sound like shit.....anyhow, it sounds great for whatever head I play through it, & definitely sounded awesome with my JMP. Go figure....

    I've played a few of the Marshall Sig amps, the Hendrix one sounded massive, basically just a brutal Plexi style amp, but it had a gargantuan taller sized 4x12 cab ( it was actually a full stack ....good Lord ) that I believe has 100 watt Celestions or something...?! If I remember correctly, that's what the salesman told me, that was a big component to the sound.Also, I disagree about the KK sig, his JCM800 with The Beast added feature.....just sounded brutal to me too.....as in, WOW.....it was just a half stack but it blew me away, only going for like $2k brand new at the time...kind of wish I would've picked it up.The key to that amp, basically, is cranking it up, getting those KT88s cooking & then engaging the Beast mode ( no pun intended  :# ) which I was able to do, to a certain extent....also, another amp that must be mentioned as kind of a sleeper/forgotten amp in the Marshall stable, but somewhat along the same lines as we're talking here, is the Modern Vintage.....again, another badass offering from Marshall & it seems they're going for rather cheap on the used market....but, just a KT88 loaded monster, I played through one of those too & it  seemed to nail an EVH Brown Sound tone without me even really trying.....my jaw was agape.....

    I'd love to have a stack of just Marshall heads, but other things take precedence, & I kind of figured maybe the JVM would scratch all those itches, it certainly covers most bases more than well enough, but there's a lot to be said about some of these older, simpler designs for sure.

    Glad I got that off my chest  ;)
    Post edited by Stitsel on
  • Cool story on that Amp. I might have some pics of my 4-holers, I'll post them here if I can find them. Those amps are stored back at my mothers (they are too big for my current place) so I can't take new ones at the moment...

    I am going for practicality these days. Downscaling as much as posible and am not shying away from the digital realm, as I said before. But I am never parting with those Marshalls for the rest of my natural life...
  • StitselStitsel Posts: 2,190
    So, not trying to hijack your thread, but here's some pics of the JMP & a few others....

    The bottom one is a new toy I got myself for Christmas, an ESP Ltd brand Black Metal EC.....that's a whole other thread! 




















  • Tatosh GuitarTatosh Guitar Posts: 2,313
    edited December 2020
    No hijack as far as I am concerned. we are on the same boat here lol.

    That's a great looking man cave. Lot's of great stuff. Congrats. Marshalls always make my mouth water. I am starting to think I have a problem...


    Post edited by Tatosh Guitar on


  • Found some pics. These are probably 15 year old pictures but the amps still look pretty much the same. I think I also have gut shots if you would be interested in those. Point to point wiring of course. 
  • Stitsel said:
    Hey, been busy with Holidays & all & meant to reply to this thread....yes my JMP 50 watt is a 2 input, 2204....which is basically a 50 watt JCM800, before they renamed them that.Smoking amp, I'm not getting rid of it even tho I've put it on the shelf, because it really has that meat & potatoes Marshall magic we all love & crave.....about a year ago, I dragged it out of mothballs & wanted to see how it sounded on top of my nifty new little Marshall 2x12 cab.....it fit on top beautifully & still sounded glorious, even though I hadn't played through it since I got my JVM, back in 2012 or so....wow, what a reminder of why I kept it! It's a 1978 & they built 'em to last back then, that's for sure.Maybe I'll post some pics some day, it's a bit tattered but still in pretty decent shape.I wish to someday have it all gone through & tuned up, all cosmetic blemishes fixed etc. It still has the same tubes in it that it came with when I bought it & it still sounds killer.....like, really really killer. It's bone stock as far as I know, & I kind of have a thing for stock amps too.Certainly sounds great as is & I would never do anything to my JVM, although there's forums everywhere out there with guys that feel doing just that is a must, so what do I know? I had picked up that little 2x12 cab thinking no way will it sound that great, maybe will need to put some other Celestions in it or something, but it sounds great....'cuz it's an MX or something, like $350 & I needed something better for my little Peavey 6505MH (lunchbox head) because the Peavey 2x12s sound like shit.....anyhow, it sounds great for whatever head I play through it, & definitely sounded awesome with my JMP. Go figure....

    I've played a few of the Marshall Sig amps, the Hendrix one sounded massive, basically just a brutal Plexi style amp, but it had a gargantuan taller sized 4x12 cab ( it was actually a full stack ....good Lord ) that I believe has 100 watt Celestions or something...?! If I remember correctly, that's what the salesman told me, that was a big component to the sound.Also, I disagree about the KK sig, his JCM800 with The Beast added feature.....just sounded brutal to me too.....as in, WOW.....it was just a half stack but it blew me away, only going for like $2k brand new at the time...kind of wish I would've picked it up.The key to that amp, basically, is cranking it up, getting those KT88s cooking & then engaging the Beast mode ( no pun intended  :# ) which I was able to do, to a certain extent....also, another amp that must be mentioned as kind of a sleeper/forgotten amp in the Marshall stable, but somewhat along the same lines as we're talking here, is the Modern Vintage.....again, another badass offering from Marshall & it seems they're going for rather cheap on the used market....but, just a KT88 loaded monster, I played through one of those too & it  seemed to nail an EVH Brown Sound tone without me even really trying.....my jaw was agape.....

    I'd love to have a stack of just Marshall heads, but other things take precedence, & I kind of figured maybe the JVM would scratch all those itches, it certainly covers most bases more than well enough, but there's a lot to be said about some of these older, simpler designs for sure.

    Glad I got that off my chest  ;)
    Nice to see the Vintage Modern get some love.  I've got the combo and the 100-watt head.  The combo's KT66s with the Hendrix G12C reissue speakers are amazing for Dino 60-70s tones, and that's without any pedals.  It might sound ridiculous, but if I had to get rid of all my amps and keep just one, it'd probably be the VM 2266 (with an attenuator)...
  • Tato, I'm in your same idea. I've played Mesa, Soldano, Diezel... But for me, it's the Marshall style. The Diezel I own it's 6l6 equiped; great sound, but... lacks something (I suposse, the El84 thing).

    Now, I'm playing over the spanish Sinmarc, mid driven pushed with a Klon style pedal; even with the master on 3, it's the tone I like. I use the 4 cable wiring into my usual pedalboard. Wah, phase on the front end, flanger, echo post preamp, to the power amp.

    Even, I'm planning trying a Sinmarc-Marshall rig for a stereo playing. Only for fun, because, I can't imagine a 200 wat gig now.

    Guys, you have GREAT rigs on your places.
  • Tato, I'm in your same idea. I've played Mesa, Soldano, Diezel... But for me, it's the Marshall style. The Diezel I own it's 6l6 equiped; great sound, but... lacks something (I suposse, the El84 thing).

    Now, I'm playing over the spanish Sinmarc, mid driven pushed with a Klon style pedal; even with the master on 3, it's the tone I like. I use the 4 cable wiring into my usual pedalboard. Wah, phase on the front end, flanger, echo post preamp, to the power amp.

    Even, I'm planning trying a Sinmarc-Marshall rig for a stereo playing. Only for fun, because, I can't imagine a 200 wat gig now.

    Guys, you have GREAT rigs on your places.
    Yeah, big amps aren't practical even on gigs these days. Unless you are playing arenas, you just can't get away with it.

    That's the reason I would get those new small Marshalls. They get the vibe right and are much more manageable. I could see me totally playing gigs with one of those.

    I love my big amps. But for the ast 5 years or so, the one tube amp that gets played here is a Fender combo. It's 45 watts so it's still insanely loud, but it has a master volume, and like most Fender amps, it takes pedals really really well on the clean channel, so I can put my OCD and the Riot in front, along with a tube screamer and get amazing results. 

    My playing might not be what I wish it was, but I can't complain on my gear lol.
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