Dio-era Sabbath question

Was discussing this with Amy today.  We were playing a bunch of Dio-era Sabbath, and we got to The Devil Cried and Shadow of the Wind
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rpnYuyilzw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90Pjc5bKTBM


It's probably a minority opinion, but I contend that these two songs might be the strongest songs they've ever done together. Taking NOTHING away from Heaven and Hell, Mob Rules, and Dehumanizer.  Three, bulletproof classics that I love dearly.  I just think these two songs ARE that strong -- both compositionally and performance-wise. They have some of the best, and heaviest Iommi riffs we'd heard in ages. Dio is superhuman on both tracks, even though he was sick at the time. And the lyrics are epic.  Amy thinks they're probably as good, but she doesn't think they're quite as good as things like Sign of the Southern Cross

And it's not me being swayed by the fact that they're fresher, and I've heard them a lot less that the classics, because I thought The Devil You Know was a huge disappointment.  (I don't want to debate TDYN).

How do you rate The Devil Cried and Shadow of the Wind, compared to the classics? 


I ain't falling for no banana in the tailpipe.

Comments

  • Seven MoonsSeven Moons Posts: 8,700
    Oddly, to me, those two songs seem very much in the same plodding style as the material off "The Devil You Know" -- I'm thinking in particular of "Bible Black" and "Follow the Tears". 
    Still, I like them a lot (just as I like TDYK) but I don't find them as memorable as the songs off H&H or Mob Rules,   which, even in the doomiest moments like "Sign of the Southern Cross", were a bit more "breathing", had more dynamics  (SOTSC has a much more memorable riff too).   That's very subjective, of course. 
  • HaffnerHaffner Posts: 7,797
    edited January 2
    Oddly, to me, those two songs seem very much in the same plodding style as the material off "The Devil You Know" -- I'm thinking in particular of "Bible Black" and "Follow the Tears". 
    Still, I like them a lot (just as I like TDYK) but I don't find them as memorable as the songs off H&H or Mob Rules,   which, even in the doomiest moments like "Sign of the Southern Cross", were a bit more "breathing", had more dynamics  (SOTSC has a much more memorable riff too).   That's very subjective, of course. 
    I like both of the songs (I give them each a solid 8/10, but I'm thinking of the Sabbath Dio Classics...SOTSC is a total 10 imo). They sound somewhat like a cross between tracks from  Dehumanizer (especially Devil Cried) and Devil You Know. I also hear a whisper of the plodding sludge of the title track from Dio's Strange Highways (a song I appreciate more and more as time goes on...one of the most Sabbatherian things Ronnie ever sang period, imo).

    I don't see the songs as good as the songs off of the first two Sabbath studio albums (with the exceptions of Walk Away and perhaps Lady Evil, two songs that never did a whole lot for me), but they both would have been great on Dehumanizer...just not as great as Computer God or I imo. 

    I do like the lyrics quite a bit, in fact I think the lyrics are one of the songs' strongest points. One wonders how personal they might be. 

    The riffs are excellent imo.
    Post edited by Haffner on
  • I must relisten to them.  My recollection is they were ok, better than the dreary TDYN but no where near the 80s classics. Dehumaniser,  have to admit I've never liked.
  • StitselStitsel Posts: 1,966
    I actually loved Dehumanizer & kinda sad to admit, I thought TDYK was kind of a letdown....although a couple of those tunes sounded pretty good in concert.... having said that, I'm probably the only guy here who actually quite liked 13..... :#
  • Stitsel said:
    I actually loved Dehumanizer & kinda sad to admit, I thought TDYK was kind of a letdown....although a couple of those tunes sounded pretty good in concert.... having said that, I'm probably the only guy here who actually quite liked 13..... :#
    I didn't mind 13, much better than TDYK
  • I preferred Ear to the wall tbh to those two.
  • StitselStitsel Posts: 1,966
    Stitsel said:
    I actually loved Dehumanizer & kinda sad to admit, I thought TDYK was kind of a letdown....although a couple of those tunes sounded pretty good in concert.... having said that, I'm probably the only guy here who actually quite liked 13..... :#
    I didn't mind 13, much better than TDYK
    That's actually my feeling too, I know it's sacrilege but don't care....
  • HaffnerHaffner Posts: 7,797
    edited January 4
    Stitsel said:
    Stitsel said:
    I actually loved Dehumanizer & kinda sad to admit, I thought TDYK was kind of a letdown....although a couple of those tunes sounded pretty good in concert.... having said that, I'm probably the only guy here who actually quite liked 13..... :#
    I didn't mind 13, much better than TDYK
    That's actually my feeling too, I know it's sacrilege but don't care....
    I've tried and tried with 13 and just can't get into it. There are a few off of DYK that I REALLY like a lot, but overall that album isn't aging well for me.

    Anyway, apologies, I know we aren't supposed to be debating those albums here. I really like the topic songs, always did. I remember thinking it inevitable they'd record together again.
    Post edited by Haffner on
  • Dinosaur David BDinosaur David B Posts: 17,480
    As I said, my opinion of those two songs in a minority opinion.
    I ain't falling for no banana in the tailpipe.
  • Duojett71Duojett71 Posts: 9,318
    Those two songs are good.....but not as memorable to me as "Falling Off The Edge Of The World" (one of the greatest heavy metal songs ever IMO), "Mob Rules", "Lonely Is The Word", "Voodoo", 'The Sign Of the Southern Cross", "Heaven And Hell"...to name several. In my opinion those two songs don't come close....but that's just me.
  • SirionSirion Posts: 3,115
    I remember when the new songs for that project started trickling in. I remember being the most impressed with "Ear in the Wall", and was surprised it didn't receive more attention here. I just listened to these again, and it confirmed my earlier impression. These aren't bad, and have some interesting progressions in them, but there are still the funeral-dirge tempos that plagued late-era Dio. "Ear in the Wall" has an urgency to it that has kept it in my mind, whilst these have disappeared.
  • Tatosh GuitarTatosh Guitar Posts: 1,693
    Wow, It's been years since I listened to these. I had totally forgotten about them, which speaks volumes by itself I suppose. And this comes from a self proclaimed Dio-era Sabbath worshipper.

    Heaven and Hell imight be my all time favorite album. Not a bad note on it, IMHO.

    These three tracks are great. Better than a lot of stuff out there. But I don't hear the same memorable stuff I heard on songs like Heaven and Hell, Die Young, Falling of the Edge of the World, Sign of the Southern Cross, etc. Iommi's soloing doesn't grab me the same way it did back in the early 80's albums, even if the riffs are good.

    There's a section on Shadow on the Wind that is pretty good, but then it returns to the main theme and I lose interest again. Ear in the Wall is faster passed and that kinda helps, but I wonder if I am just giving it a bonus point due to that, not because it's actually quality content. I don't think I have ever heard a single Ronnie vocal I didn't like, but that's more due to the fact that the man could sing the phonebook (remember those? lol) and still sound godlike. 

    As Sirion said, those slow tempos on later era Dio material is the main reason those records never get any playing time on these parts. The only one I gave more than a couple spins was Killing the Dragon and that was more due to Doug than Ronnie himself. Ronnie loved working with Craig Goldie, and loved slow songs "to stretch his vocals" (his actual words in one of his last interviews) and the results leave me cold more often than not, regardless of the vocal quaility.

  • M11M11 Posts: 813
    How do you rate The Devil Cried and Shadow of the Wind, compared to the classics? 
    Good songs but far from the classics IMO. I feel they both lack the hooks that the classics have.
  • HaffnerHaffner Posts: 7,797
    edited January 7
    I wasn't thrilled with all the slow songs in the latter-era Dio either. He did say once that fast songs were hardest to write.

    To me Ronnie did great with slow songs later on when he either consciously went for the Sabbatherian (Strange Highways...LOVE that track), or added interesting, at times relatively atypical, lyrics (a couple of tracks off Master of the Moon, an album I happen to like more than DYK though on an overall level.) 

    DYK had killer single cuts like Atom and Evil, Breaking into Heaven, and Bible Black imo, while MOTM was a more satisfying listen overall.

    I like the song Killing the Dragon, and the boys choir song on that album was sweet, but otherwise, wasn't big into that. Magica kind of dragged for me, and Angry Machines was kind of estranging.
    Post edited by Haffner on
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