Here's a shock: JOHN SYKES Splits With GOLDEN ROBOT RECORDS Without Releasing Long-Awaited New Album

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  • Tatosh GuitarTatosh Guitar Posts: 1,897
    https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/carmine-appice-on-why-blue-murder-reunion-hasnt-happened-yet-we-still-cant-get-john-sykes-out-of-the-house/


    Presumably John's issue with 'the business' aspects are not being able to make much money out of of the proposed activities? Some of the comments are interesting,  he's one guy no one knows much about.  Wife influence....no idea? Clearly he doesn't need to work much. 

    He still has 1987 royalties, I suppose. There's an old Coverdale quote I read somewhere that basically said "John is the guy who played less (in whitesnake) and who made the most money out of it". That record made a LOT of dough, so I suppose Sykes still cashes in from it.
  • Dinosaur David BDinosaur David B Posts: 17,748
    edited January 30
    Yes he still does. Sykes get's half the publishing. He was smart enough to insist on that (where others did not and got screwed). And in the ensuing years, Sykes has consistently refused to be financially screwed-over. It's why he's no longer associated with what tours and passes for Thin Lizzy these days, despite the nonsense Scott Gorham said about that split at the time. 

    Because the continuing WS87 royalties are still coming in, Sykes is afforded the luxury of not having to work at all, or for decades at a time, where guys like Lynch have to keep putting one-off projects together, and every so often, reuniting with a guy he can't stand.  So when Sykes' record deal fell apart (perhaps over money?), it's disappointing for us fans who want to hear new music from him, but it's completely in-character with what he's done his whole career. And FWIW, I respect that he isn't willing to bend over, though I acknowledge that stance is far easier to take when you're financially independent.  But Sykes was unwilling to bend over for DC the early 80s before he was financially independent. And I respect that!

    It's funny. Seldom can you look at one artist and so CLEARLY point to both the smartest thing they ever did: get half the publishing for 87 from Coverdale, and the stupidest thing they ever did: sign Blue Murder to Geffen while DC/WS was still on that label. If he had signed with ANY OTHER LABEL, that band would probably have been huge.

    As for DC's comment; "John is the guy who played less (in Whitesnake) and who made the most money out of it." Yeah, he also made YOU the most money in your career, too Mr. C. It was Sykes' songs that cracked your band in the U.S., and it's Sykes' songs that 99% of your audience, to this daystill buys tickets to hear.   

    That said, I prefer both of the Doug Aldrich WS albums to WS87.
    Post edited by Dinosaur David B on
    In the midst of the sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament.
  • Oh can you fill me in on the details of this:

    "It's why he's no longer associated with what tours and passes for Thin Lizzy these days, despite the nonsense Scott Gorham said about that split at the time."

    I don't know the backstory here. What did Goram say, and what was it really?
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  • Let's just say it was about the money. What Gorham said at the time was that it was because "Skyes was too metal for Thin Lizzy" -- which didn't seem to bother Scott for the prior decade when John resurrected a dead band, got Scott off the couch, playing and touring again. 
    In the midst of the sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament.
  • Tatosh GuitarTatosh Guitar Posts: 1,897
    Let's just say it was about the money. What Gorham said at the time was that it was because "Skyes was too metal for Thin Lizzy" -- which didn't seem to bother Scott for the prior decade when John resurrected a dead band, got Scott off the couch, playing and touring again. 

    Not to mention, John was fronting the band, had legit Lizzy credentials (not at Gorham level, but still) and made a more than adecuate job at playing both Robbo and Gary's parts. I suppose the metal excuse sounded better than saying "I should be getting the lion's share and Sykes won't let me".

    I was beyond pissed when that version broke up. I wanted to see them, and now I am pretty sure it will never happen.
  • MelodicGritMelodicGrit Posts: 601
    I would love to have seen the live lineup with Sykes too.  I was just listening to their One Night Only live release yesterday; it holds up well.
  • SnoogansSnoogans Posts: 1,670
    I would love to have seen the live lineup with Sykes too.
    I saw them on their last tour as Thin Lizzy, and to be honest it was more than a little underwhelming.  And I was really looking forward to seeing JS! :/
    I got the impression that they were all pretty pissed-off, and Scotty looked decidedly medicated. Apparently he had "flu"...
    Strange thing is that there was more merchandising for Tommy Aldridge than there was for Lizzy.  I didn't buy any, 'cos I don't like him much. Great drummer, but weirds me out for some indescribable reason.

    Since then, I've seen Scotty and co in Black Star Riders, and they are really bloody good!
  • I know exactly what you mean about Aldridge, he weirds me out too.
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  • HaffnerHaffner Posts: 7,887
    edited January 31

    I was beyond pissed when that version broke up. I wanted to see them, and now I am pretty sure it will never happen. 

    Me too, my friend.


    Dinosaur David B said:
    Let's just say it was about the money. What Gorham said at the time was that it was because "Skyes was too metal for Thin Lizzy" -- which didn't seem to bother Scott for the prior decade when John resurrected a dead band, got Scott off the couch, playing and touring again. 


    Quote: "Too metal for Thin Lizzy"...huh? Thunder and Lightning is an album that has grown a great deal on me over the years, I consider it one of their best (sure, it ain't Live and Dangerous or Black Rose...but what is?) I love Scott, but maybe he wasn't thinking when he said that. 
    Post edited by Haffner on
  • Tatosh GuitarTatosh Guitar Posts: 1,897
    Yes he still does. Sykes get's half the publishing. He was smart enough to insist on that (where others did not and got screwed). And in the ensuing years, Sykes has consistently refused to be financially screwed-over. It's why he's no longer associated with what tours and passes for Thin Lizzy these days, despite the nonsense Scott Gorham said about that split at the time. 

    Because the continuing WS87 royalties are still coming in, Sykes is afforded the luxury of not having to work at all, or for decades at a time, where guys like Lynch have to keep putting one-off projects together, and every so often, reuniting with a guy he can't stand.  So when Sykes' record deal fell apart (perhaps over money?), it's disappointing for us fans who want to hear new music from him, but it's completely in-character with what he's done his whole career. And FWIW, I respect that he isn't willing to bend over, though I acknowledge that stance is far easier to take when you're financially independent.  But Sykes was unwilling to bend over for DC the early 80s before he was financially independent. And I respect that!

    It's funny. Seldom can you look at one artist and so CLEARLY point to both the smartest thing they ever did: get half the publishing for 87 from Coverdale, and the stupidest thing they ever did: sign Blue Murder to Geffen while DC/WS was still on that label. If he had signed with ANY OTHER LABEL, that band would probably have been huge.

    As for DC's comment; "John is the guy who played less (in Whitesnake) and who made the most money out of it." Yeah, he also made YOU the most money in your career, too Mr. C. It was Sykes' songs that cracked your band in the U.S., and it's Sykes' songs that 99% of your audience, to this daystill buys tickets to hear.   

    That said, I prefer both of the Doug Aldrich WS albums to WS87.

    Sykes has a spine. Not many guys do. Gotta respect that.

    I believe John Kalonder was the guy responsible to signing Blue Murder, so it was Geffen by default. There were contracts signed prior, I suppose.

    Coverdale is quite an honest guy, he says the truth point blank when asked. I saw an interview not long ago and he was quite clear about the fact that the 1987 album has made him more money than anything else in his career, incluiding the Deep Purple stuff.

    As a side note, I have seen interviews with guys who have worked with him, and they all mention that he is not cheap when paying musicians. Both Campbell and Aldrich (on different interviews, of course) have been on record that compared to Dio, Coverdale was an excellent employer. Make of that what you will...

    Aldridge is an excellent live drummer, that's why he gets so many calls. He is reliable, and gets the job done. He is no Powell, but who is?

    Haffner said:

    Quote: "Too metal for Thin Lizzy"...huh? Thunder and Lightning is an album that has grown a great deal on me over the years, I consider it one of their best (sure, it ain't Live and Dangerous or Black Rose...but what is?) I love Scott, but maybe he wasn't thinking when he said that. 

    Oh he was thinking. He just needed a quick excuse and that's probably the first thing that came to his mind. That version of the band sounded great. Not too much metal at all.
    I would love to have seen the live lineup with Sykes too.  I was just listening to their One Night Only live release yesterday; it holds up well.

    That's the first Lizzy album I ever heard (too young in 2000 and with a disjointed musical upbringing will do that to you) and I still love it to death. Sykes is astoundingly good on it. That album made a huge impact on me and on what "milking a vibrato" really is.
  • Dinosaur David BDinosaur David B Posts: 17,748
    edited January 31
    Kalodner really believed in Sykes, and talked him into it.  Sykes knew he'd made a terrible mistake almost immediately. 
    Post edited by Dinosaur David B on
    In the midst of the sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament.
  • Tatosh GuitarTatosh Guitar Posts: 1,897
    Kalodner really believed in Sykes, and talked him into it.  Sykes knew he'd made a terrible mistake almost immediately. 

    I didn't know that. Sucks if that was the case. Putting all that effort for nothing strikes me as a terrible waste, specially as the Blue Murder is a killer album, even today.
  • Bent out of shapeBent out of shape Posts: 655
    edited February 1
    Coverdale good guy yeah, but was being pushed by Sykes ambition.  Gorham is full of it....this 'too metal quote,' ridiculous.  Saw his TL Loreley 2016 supporting Ritchie,  competent but dull imho
    Post edited by Bent out of shape on
  • I love the songs and the playing on the Thunder and Lightning album, but the production style is hard for me to get past. I wish they'd gone for something less trendy and of the moment in terms of how they recorded everything—it sounds way more dated than the whole run of albums before that. Sonically, everything is so scooped and unrealistic. I was excited when they put out that deluxe CD remaster a few years ago, because I thought maybe they'd do some real stuff to make it sound different and good, but that's not what happened. One thing I like about Live Life, though, is that you can hear a bunch of those songs with less of the cartoon heavy-metal production stuff.

    With Phil Lynott gone obviously there's nothing anyone can do, but this is one album where I'd sort of be into it if they did one of those stupid old-guys-rerecord-an-entire-album-for-no-reason things. 

    I also feel the same way about David Lee Roth's second solo record, Skyscraper. Sometimes I think if Mutt Lange had produced that, instead of DLR and Steve Vai, it'd be my favorite album ever. 
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  • There are two sides to every story, and Sykes has never, and likely will never fully tell his side in a public forum. 

    Coverdale may have been "a good guy" or fine to some other musicians, but he's largely responsible for tanking Blue Murder with Geffen. Which I believe is pretty common knowledge (at least around here) for those who lived through that time.

    On the other hand, there's ample hear-say over the last 35 years that Sykes "doesn't play well with others," or is at minimum, flaky. It's not like he hasn't had opportunities -- both Franklin and Appiece have tried to reunite Blue Murder multiple times. Nothing doing. He was supposed to be with Portnoy in what became Winery Dogs. Portnoy got tired of waiting, and moved on. Eddie Trunk has been banging the drum for Sykes to return forever.

    I mean, at the time this site started, Jake E. Lee had been literally unseen for roughly 10 years. Who at that time, would have thought that Jake would resurface, and relaunch his musical career and Sykes, who made great albums up till 2000 would go into a 20 year self-imposed exile?  Certainly not me. 

    I'm sure Sykes always has his reasons why all these things fail to get off the ground. And some could well be legit (perhaps financially unsound? -- the only thing we DO know about Sykes is that he won't bite on that).  But because Sykes almost never says anything about any project -- even to explain or defend his position, the perception that he's flaky remains and grows with each passing decade (two and counting) of no musical output. That perception has certainly grown with me. It's why when we see a story like this one, that his album deal fell apart, it surprises no one anymore. At this point, it would surprise me far more if that album EVER sees the light of day. 
    In the midst of the sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament.
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