Do You Rank Jake's Two w/ Ozzy the Equal of Randy's (GUITAR ONLY)?

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  • Dinosaur David BDinosaur David B Posts: 17,474
    edited March 2018
    I think Randy's songs are unquestionably better and more memorable.  I also think Randy's solos are more melodic memorable. I think Randy just had more compositional talent. 

    To me, the only two tracks Jake did with Ozzy that stand toe-to-toe with the Randy tracks are Bark, and Rock N Roll Rebel.  I actually think Zakk produced a lot more memorable songs and solos for Ozzy than Jake did. 

    Jake's guitar work was always flashy as hell and stunning, but other than the two songs I mentioned, not very sticky.  For me personally, when I consider everything Jake's done with Ozzy and Badlands, there's probably less than 6 Jake songs in total that I can remember how they go without listening to the albums.  

    I think where Jake surpassed Randy was in the the more subtle areas of control and confidence -- both in the studio and live. I think Jakes mechanics were probably slightly better than Randy's. In terms of things like having his vibrato under control and subtle things like that, Jake seemed to be a more seasoned player on his first Ozzy album than Randy was on Blizzard (and Randy improved by Diary).  But this is really nit-picky guitar-nerd shit I'm talking about that no one in their right mind cares about. 

    Jake was such a cocky (in a good way) motherfucker. In the live Bark concert video, Jake played Randy's solos with more confidence and bravado than Randy did. And he did it while strutting around on stage like the total badass he was. NO guitarist of that era had better stage presence and performance skill than Jake. 


    Post edited by Dinosaur David B on
    I ain't falling for no banana in the tailpipe.
  • HaffnerHaffner Posts: 7,792
    edited March 2018


    Jake was such a cocky (in a good way) motherfucker. In the live Bark concert video, Jake played Randy's solos with more confidence and bravado than Randy did. And he did it while strutting around on stage like the total badass he was. NO guitarist of that era had better stage presence and performance skill than Jake. 



    Jake was super charismatic. It was a heartbreaker for me when Ozzy fired him (I'm still skeptical of Ozzy's...I mean Sharon's "reason"). To me he was the whole show at the time, as Ozzy's angry housewife look really bummed me out.

    I put those two on the same pedestal. Iommi is on another, the one he built for himself out of Cthulhu-ian ore.

    Post edited by Haffner on
  • Agree with Bourbonsamuri. There is a consistency issue with Jake. I don't know all that much about Randy Rhoads except I like what I do know and after this year's NAMM thing that Venomboy put me wise to, I'll likely be doing some more critical listening. Would have been a better conversation if we'd been lucky enough to see Randy Rhoads progress through the years. Badlands is an awesome contribution to my world. I wonder what what we'd have to pit it against. 
  • Never a Jake fan. 
    "These riffs were built to last a lifetime." Keith Richards B)

    BDR-529  

    Member:
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  • mr_crowleymr_crowley Posts: 6,579
    From a pure guitar playing perspective Ultimate Sin is for me the Ozzy album where it's at it's most flashy and flamboyant - apart from Killer of Giants and the title track I don't rate that album that high but the guitar playing, that some sick stuff on there and the best tone Jake ever had IMO.

    The melodies and themes Randy did though, I mean even the blistering fast stuff had some pretty good melodic stuff if you just slowed it down. I guess he just knew the theory behind it so damn well it all turned out very harmonic compared to what someone that is just brought up on kick ass rock guitar playing would naturally gravitate towards.

    Even though I discovered Randy more than twenty years after his death (being borned in '92, starting playing around '04-'05, sort of wasn't a choice, haha!) I was still knocked out by his playing. I was fortunate enough to stumble upon that stuff before I had delved too deep into the world of shred, I had pretty much just listened to Iron Maiden and the likes, lot of the power metal stuff they spawned... That was definitely a new level of playing for me personally and something about it really attracted my attention. Been a big Randy-fan since the first time my dad played me Diary of a Madman, that settled it for me.. He was like: "You like Ozzy? You better listen to this then...". I mean, when you're 11 years old that sort of stuff kind of sticks with you :lol:

    Also, for me personally, I find the albums Ozzy did with Randy is far more enjoyable as complete musical works most and foremost becuase the songwriting is far superior and IMO Ozzy didn't really match that again until No More Tears which I rank as high enough as the first two.

    It kinds of makes it a throw up for me personally.

    I do believe from a technical view point and just overall playing and control of the instrument Jake was probably ahead of Randy already on Bark and on Sin he definitely raised the bar but on the other hand my emotional ties to Randy and his overall melodic approach, groundbreaking chops and my fanboy-ism sort of makes me lean towards him anyways.
  • bourbonsamuraibourbonsamurai Posts: 1,488
    edited March 2018
    tangential to this poll, here‘s Eddie Trunk on why Badlands and Voodoo Highway remain out of print.  sad:  https://youtu.be/yGkiASqlqKE
    Post edited by bourbonsamurai on
  • Duojett71Duojett71 Posts: 9,315
    tangential to this poll, here‘s Eddie Trunk on why Badlands and Voodoo Highway remain out of print.  sad:  https://youtu.be/yGkiASqlqKE
    I listened to an interview with Jake and I think it was Greg Chaisson from a couple years on Eddie Trunk's show....and Eddie brought that up. Eddie seemed to know more about it than Jake did. Eddie explained to Jake that he heard from industry insiders that the licenses were pulled because of the families of deceased woman. Jake seemed really puzzled and wondered how that helped those families to prevent the release of those albums. I felt bad for Jake. Those albums are wayyyyy to good not to see the light of day again. 
  • bourbonsamuraibourbonsamurai Posts: 1,488
    Duojett71 said:
    tangential to this poll, here‘s Eddie Trunk on why Badlands and Voodoo Highway remain out of print.  sad:  https://youtu.be/yGkiASqlqKE
    I listened to an interview with Jake and I think it was Greg Chaisson from a couple years on Eddie Trunk's show....and Eddie brought that up. Eddie seemed to know more about it than Jake did. Eddie explained to Jake that he heard from industry insiders that the licenses were pulled because of the families of deceased woman. Jake seemed really puzzled and wondered how that helped those families to prevent the release of those albums. I felt bad for Jake. Those albums are wayyyyy to good not to see the light of day again. 
    the same thought crossed my mind.  how exactly, does it help anyone to keep these records buried? that guitar tone, all by itself, deserves to live forever.
  • OskyOsky Posts: 1,037
    I think Randy's songs are unquestionably better and more memorable.  I also think Randy's solos are more melodic memorable. I think Randy just had more compositional talent. 

    To me, the only two tracks Jake did with Ozzy that stand toe-to-toe with the Randy tracks are Bark, and Rock N Roll Rebel.  I actually think Zakk produced a lot more memorable songs and solos for Ozzy than Jake did. 

    Jake's guitar work was always flashy as hell and stunning, but other than the two songs I mentioned, not very sticky.  For me personally, when I consider everything Jake's done with Ozzy and Badlands, there's probably less than 6 Jake songs in total that I can remember how they go without listening to the albums.  

    I think where Jake surpassed Randy was in the the more subtle areas of control and confidence -- both in the studio and live. I think Jakes mechanics were probably slightly better than Randy's. In terms of things like having his vibrato under control and subtle things like that, Jake seemed to be a more seasoned player on his first Ozzy album than Randy was on Blizzard (and Randy improved by Diary).  But this is really nit-picky guitar-nerd shit I'm talking about that no one in their right mind cares about. 

    Jake was such a cocky (in a good way) motherfucker. In the live Bark concert video, Jake played Randy's solos with more confidence and bravado than Randy did. And he did it while strutting around on stage like the total badass he was. NO guitarist of that era had better stage presence and performance skill than Jake. 


    Dave you wrote pretty much word for word what I feel too. I never saw Ozzy with Randy... although I had tickets for a UK tour which Ozzy cancelled in early 82... but I saw Jake with him three times once on the Bark tour and then at Castle Donington MOR in 84 and 86... all  3 times he was an awesome showman one of the most visually entertaining guitarists ever. BUT other than the track Bark at The Moon which I LOVE, the songs on the 2 Jake era LPs leave me cold. I do like Badlands though.
  • HaffnerHaffner Posts: 7,792
    I'm a little surprised that the majority voted yes. Had this been in the 80s or 90s the vote might have been very, very different.
  • cvansicklecvansickle Posts: 6,139
    edited March 2018
    Jake was a good fit for Ozzy at the time, I believe, because like Dave said, Jake was playing with the swagger of the typical 80s guitarist. There were a lot of hair bands making a lot of noise on MTV, and Ozzy had to compete. Jake kept Ozzy from being perceived as an old guy.
    Post edited by cvansickle on
    Death Or Glory - Who Dares Wins!
  • bourbonsamuraibourbonsamurai Posts: 1,488
    Haffner said:
    I'm a little surprised that the majority voted yes. Had this been in the 80s or 90s the vote might have been very, very different.
    we’re PLAYERS here, though.  a lot of the things Jake is and does are going to go over the heads of many.  especially as time goes by, it is apparent that the level of mastery Jake achieved is very rare indeed. and i voted “against” him in this poll.  lol
  • bourbonsamuraibourbonsamurai Posts: 1,488
    edited March 2018
    really, how blessed are we to “get” this stuff?  we are keepers of a rare flame, here.  not a day passes where i’m not grateful for the luxury of living this music.  i grew up on it, made my living on it, and i’ve seen what it does to people when you put it in their faces live.  i mean, you come at people with even a close APPROXIMATION of Randy or Jake, and you’re going to rip their heads off and they will NEVER be the same.  believe that.
    Post edited by bourbonsamurai on
  • HaffnerHaffner Posts: 7,792
    really, how blessed are we to “get” this stuff?  we are keepers of a rare flame, here.  not a day passes where i’m not grateful for the luxury of living this music.  i grew up on it, made my living on it, and i’ve seen what it does to people when you put it in their faces live.  i mean, you come at people with even a close APPROXIMATION of Randy or Jake, and you’re going to rip their heads off and they will NEVER be the same.  believe that.

    It says something that I don't play guitar anymore and yet still come around talking about it. Exclusive.
  • SirionSirion Posts: 3,115
    Haffner said:
    I'm a little surprised that the majority voted yes. Had this been in the 80s or 90s the vote might have been very, very different.
    I suspect that the result would be very, very different if you had asked anywhere but here. Jake remains our own little secret. :)
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