particular type of of chord progression-Richard Wright-tension and release

DynagodDynagod Posts: 971
edited December 1969 in Songwriting
I remember watching a Pink Floyd documentary some time ago that had Richard Wright discussing how "The Great Gig In The Sky" came to be.
He described the first two chords that come in the first 5 or seconds or so of the song as being of a particular type.
He explained it like a suspended would eventually resolve, but this was an example of something completely different.
Anyone else have any idea about what it is/was called?
Its just Bm to F

Comments

  • JoebuddhaJoebuddha Posts: 2,108
    Bmin to F Major would be using a technique called Modal Interchange to create a "b5 substitution"
    Basically, there is no F natural in the Bmin scale B, C#, D, E, F#, G, A.
    So F is "borrowing" a chord from another key. What Gilmour would tend to do in these situations would be to play F Major pentatonic (Dmin) over that chord, probably with an added 4 (Bb).
    F Maj Pent would be F, G, A, C, D. The added 4 would be Bb.
    B minor chord is B, D, F#.
    F Major  chord is F, A, C.
    If you employ voice leading you can make some lovely transitions between those two chords using inversions, because of the step wise movement between them.
  • All I know is that Bmin to G gets you Wild Horses.  :036:
    I ain't falling for no banana in the tailpipe.
  • MAdXMAdX Posts: 1,985
    [quote author=Joebuddha link=topic=17886.msg268720#msg268720 date=1450651173]
    Bmin to F Major would be using a technique called Modal Interchange to create a "b5 substitution"
    Basically, there is no F natural in the Bmin scale B, C#, D, E, F#, G, A.
    So F is "borrowing" a chord from another key. What Gilmour would tend to do in these situations would be to play F Major pentatonic (Dmin) over that chord, probably with an added 4 (Bb).
    F Maj Pent would be F, G, A, C, D. The added 4 would be Bb.
    B minor chord is B, D, F#.
    F Major  chord is F, A, C.
    If you employ voice leading you can make some lovely transitions between those two chords using inversions, because of the step wise movement between them.
    [/quote]

    Hey Joe, I'm trying to study some modal theory on my own and I stumbled across this one thing I don't really understand. Maybe you can help me out?

    I have written a song with a progression that is A minor, F major, B diminished, E major. When I try to apply what I've read, the A (aeolian) would be the 6th chord of a C ionian, F (lydian) would be 4th, B the 7th (locrian), and the E would be the 3rd (phyrgian).
    What's confusing to me is that the last E chord is a major chord and the phyrgian mode is minor, and changing it to minor just doesn't sound right to my ears.  :rolleyes:
  • JoebuddhaJoebuddha Posts: 2,108
    Yeah man no problem. This is actually one of the most common usages of modal interchange in Hard Rock / Metal.
    It is called a Dominant 5 substitution, and all you need to do is use A harmonic minor over the E Major chord.
    The reason for this is that A aeolian is spelled A,B,C,D,E,F,G,A. - A Harmonic minor is A,B,C,D,E,F,G#,A.
    The G# works over the E Major chord, which is spelled E,G#,B.
    This can be thought of modally as the Phrygian dominant mode.
    So really you are only adjusting one note over one chord so you don't need to run an entirely new scale when that chord comes up, you can just highlight the G# over E Major, or you can just avoid the third altogether.

    This progression is in a bunch of different songs in many keys, Sultans Of Swing, Hotel California, a ton of different Yngwie, Al Dimeola and Randy Rhoads tunes.
    Let me know if this helps at all, and if you need scale shapes I can send them to you.
  • MAdXMAdX Posts: 1,985
    [quote author=Joebuddha link=topic=17886.msg269398#msg269398 date=1452448534]
    Yeah man no problem. This is actually one of the most common usages of modal interchange in Hard Rock / Metal.
    It is called a Dominant 5 substitution, and all you need to do is use A harmonic minor over the E Major chord.
    The reason for this is that A aeolian is spelled A,B,C,D,E,F,G,A. - A Harmonic minor is A,B,C,D,E,F,G#,A.
    The G# works over the E Major chord, which is spelled E,G#,B.
    This can be thought of modally as the Phrygian dominant mode.
    So really you are only adjusting one note over one chord so you don't need to run an entirely new scale when that chord comes up, you can just highlight the G# over E Major, or you can just avoid the third altogether.

    This progression is in a bunch of different songs in many keys, Sultans Of Swing, Hotel California, a ton of different Yngwie, Al Dimeola and Randy Rhoads tunes.
    Let me know if this helps at all, and if you need scale shapes I can send them to you.
    [/quote]

    Thank you! Makes a bit more sense now. So the E major would be a substitution for the 5th chord (G mixolydian)? I haven't really gotten into chord subs, I've only seen a Joe Pass video on the subject that left my head spinning.
  • JoebuddhaJoebuddha Posts: 2,108
    Nope.
    G is the 5th of C.
    But if you are treating A min as your 1 then Emin is the 5th of A. So you are subbing and E Maj chord for E min. If you add the 7th to that chord you get E7 which is a dominant chord.
  • jebbuddajebbudda Posts: 5,030
    Without knowing the theory behind it .......

    The Pink Floyd chord thang off an E & A Chord :

    The two bass notes of a C chord  ( 3rd fret A string 2nd fret D string )  everything else open . You can strum it but picking every note sounds better IMHO >

    Switch to 3rd fret A string  4th fret D string 2nd fret G string .......OH YEAH ! 

    Resolve on open E .
  • Duojett71Duojett71 Posts: 9,322
    Joebuddha said:
    Bmin to F Major would be using a technique called Modal Interchange to create a "b5 substitution"
    Basically, there is no F natural in the Bmin scale B, C#, D, E, F#, G, A.
    So F is "borrowing" a chord from another key. What Gilmour would tend to do in these situations would be to play F Major pentatonic (Dmin) over that chord, probably with an added 4 (Bb).
    F Maj Pent would be F, G, A, C, D. The added 4 would be Bb.
    B minor chord is B, D, F#.
    F Major  chord is F, A, C.
    If you employ voice leading you can make some lovely transitions between those two chords using inversions, because of the step wise movement between them.
    ....after reading that I am wondering if I have any business even touching a guitar..... :/
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