Is ‘Progressive’ still a bad word to put in front of ‘Rock?’

ShoogliePegShoogliePeg Posts: 245
Read this interesting article on the BBC website about the recent Prog Rock awards which suggests Prog is no longer seen as a joke by many music fans

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-19492677

I’ve read positive comments before on this forum regarding various prog bands that are mentioned within this report. I really enjoy a lot of prog rock and listen to it regularly.

I especially enjoy the beautiful moments of ambience and varied music signatures and styles it throws up – For me one of the best examples of this is Gates of Delirium by Yes - epic stuff. Other times I’d rather put a Saxon or Motorhead album on and listen to glorious thrash bang wallop and screaming solos

There was a big backlash in the UK in the late 70’s where these bands were seen as archaic, pretentious and out of touch of most music fans. Prog IMHO has never fully recovered or lost this bad rap even in the 80’s when the neo prog guys like Marillion enjoyed a wee bit of commercial success.

As the report suggest bands like Porcupine Tree have done much to bring the style back into vogue (in a very brilliant fashion IMO) but I get the feeling that even though Steven Wilson has been hugely influenced by the 70’s prog super groups he is reluctant and rather resigned at the Prog moniker that his group are saddled with specifically because of the 'snigger' it generates from some people

I’m interested to hear what my fellow Dino posters think of Prog, what bands/albums you like or as the title suggests is it still a bad word and just not your cut of tea
«1

Comments

  • You will be in excellent company here, I believe.  For some, I don't think the "prog" was ever a dirty word.  When I hear it, I snap still like a deer facing down a pick up truck in the middle of the night.  Eyes shiny and bulged out, limbs ridged and breathing suspended.  :eyetwitch:  I am totally arrested and in full shut down mode.  :shock:  I wait to hate it.  And yearn to bolt screaming. Makes me want to strike myself in the head with a sledgehammer.

    There is only a very narrow margin of redemption.  There's a little prog metal that has occasionally settled me down, allowed me to exhale, normal physiological function commences... but even then I remain guarded and don't last for extended periods of time. (Buckethead, Jeff Loomis, Chris Poland, occasionally I can even do some of Shawn Lane's progressive things but more because I'm just fascinated with him rather than emotionally attracted to the music)  But Progressive Rock- the likes of Yes, Rush, Dream Theater, King Crimson, Genesis, ALAN HOLDSWORTH (and any other Angular fusion people),- is unfortunately completely unpalatable for me.  :036:

    But again, I am pretty much the minority here.  I think you'll be in good company with a lot of Dinos who love these bands and that kind of music.  There is no denying that it takes a certain musical intelligence to pull stuff like that off.  I have a lot of respect for that music, I just am not attracted to it.

  • AgrippaAgrippa Posts: 5,928
    Was it ever a joke ? Not to the music buyers, when Punk was at it highest (1979), one of the best selling and most debated albums all over the world was Pink Floyds mammoth prog masterpiece "The Wall"
    Prog, or progressive has never been a bad word to put in front anything, and certainly not Rock.
    At least not to me.

    The Prog "community" has embraced the monikers bad connotation, and as the "rock-media" has deemed Prog as a genre obsolete and as the prog community grew, the "bad" connotations has more or less disapeared.
    The prog community don' t care, they know the genres roots and its fate in the media when punk came along, and thet embrace that.
    In my opinion the prog movement is only slightly less nostalgic than the Rockabilly movement.
    It has more to do with the music than the era, as opposed to the Rockabilly movement, but other than that it is mainly a genre for a nostalgic audience who, much like ourselves at DRG, don' t give a flying fart about what music and artists are current or relevant in the media of the day.
  • HaffnerHaffner Posts: 7,890
    [quote author=guitarrednfeathered link=topic=14264.msg217541#msg217541 date=1347026598]
    I have a lot of respect for that music, I just am not attracted to it.


    [/quote]


    Not sure you'll like Lyraka Volume 2 much then, Jenn. It's definitely more what some would call "progressive", and experimental as well.

    Actually, it's probably progressive/experimental in an at least peripherally Uli way, so maybe you will.

    It's an obsolete-thinking person who doesn't see Rock and all of its genres as just as legitimate an Art form as any other. Too many people worship the old just because it's old, Nietzsche wrote some great stuff on that btw.

    That said, I sometimes get turned off by the Progressive label because "progressive" implies that something new is happening, or that what it isn't is something "non-progressive" (as if that's something frown-worthy). Just think: a composer like Mozart broke absolutely no new musical ground (he simply built on the templates that Monteverdi, Bach, and Haydn had already set). And much of his work, including the familiar "hits", were hack work for the Emperor and other patrons. But even his "hits" are considered unbelievable masterpieces of craftsmanship and melodic invention, and rightly so.

    So...even Mozart wasn't considered "Progressive", especially during his time.

    It makes me wonder exactly what "Progressive" is supposed to mean, since there's so little new ground being unearthed, in pretty much any musical genre...what exactly is progressing? :036:
  • Prog was my introduction to rock music...  so it's certainly not a bad word in my book.  My fave prog bands are Pink Floyd, Genesis (up to "Wind and Wuthering"), Jethro Tull.  Among the recent ones, Bigelf.  BTW, they've been out of the radar since 2009, but they've recently posted an update on their facebook page to announce a new album in the works.  

    I'm not much into prog-metal, though. 



  • I never thought Prog Rock was a dirty word. 

    Check this out: the Gibraltar of Prog Rock website has been around a very long time, almost as long as the internet itself.  It has an exhaustive list and short descriptions of just about every prog band ever: http://www.gepr.net/

    I've always enjoyed ELP, early Peter Gabriel, Kansas, Planet P, even early Asia.  I liked how the themes, lyrics and sounds were often Sci-Fi or futuristic in nature.  I used to read a lot of science fiction when I was young, and that interest dovetailed nicely with early 80's Prog.  Ronnie Montrose's Gamma 3 is what I think is a very good prog rock album, even though the guitar doesn't dominate the sound nearly as much as in the earlier albums. 

    I think maybe Prog got a bad rap in some cases for being pretentious, overwrought, and overcomplicated.  Particularly some of the classical music inspired Prog could be complex and-- to me-- uninvolving.  That's what happens when, in the worst cases, you take away any sense of balls/aggression and melody/emotion.
  • 80% of what i listen to is Progressive _________. There's always something tagged on the end.

    I'm waiting for the new "Mystery", "Threshold", "Marillion" to arrive in the mail.

    Other recent purchases have been:

    Metallic Taste of Blood
    Porcupine Tree + stevens solo stuff and side projects like Storm Corrosion
    Saga
    Edison's Children
    The Prog Collective
    Squackett
    Headspace
    The Reasoning
    OSI
    just to name a few....prog is alive and well.
  • [quote author=Haffner link=topic=14264.msg217548#msg217548 date=1347028475]
    Not sure you'll like Lyraka Volume 2 much then, Jenn. It's definitely more what some would call "progressive", and experimental as well.

    [/quote]
    Dude. Andy.  Don't you know I'll always be a Lyraka fan no matter what as I am completely biased and allegiant?  :wink: :pleased:
    Besides, "Experimental" is okay with me. While Zappa is most often lost me, I do have a love affair with Primus and Les Claypool. Just depends.  And I like Lyraka's feeling of adventure.  You get to go on a little journey when you listen to Lyraka.
  • HaffnerHaffner Posts: 7,890
    [quote author=guitarrednfeathered link=topic=14264.msg217622#msg217622 date=1347118531]
    [quote author=Haffner link=topic=14264.msg217548#msg217548 date=1347028475]
    Not sure you'll like Lyraka Volume 2 much then, Jenn. It's definitely more what some would call "progressive", and experimental as well.

    [/quote]
    Dude. Andy.  Don't you know I'll always be a Lyraka fan no matter what as I am completely biased and allegiant?  :wink: :pleased:
    Besides, "Experimental" is okay with me. While Zappa is most often lost me, I do have a love affair with Primus and Les Claypool. Just depends.  And I like Lyraka's feeling of adventure.  You get to go on a little journey when you listen to Lyraka.
    [/quote]


    Okay, this post and that avatar made my whole weekend.
  • [quote author=DaveinSF link=topic=14264.msg217563#msg217563 date=1347041345]
    I never thought Prog Rock was a dirty word. 

    Check this out: the Gibraltar of Prog Rock website has been around a very long time, almost as long as the internet itself.  It has an exhaustive list and short descriptions of just about every prog band ever: http://www.gepr.net/

    [/quote]

    Many thanks for the link DaveinSF I will certainly be visiting this site

    For me Prog has never been a dirty word just wanted to know what you guys thought and what were your favourite bands to maybe point me in the direction of some good sounds

    Certainly the word 'Progressive' does seem to be a bit daft nowadays but that is what it was called when it was breaking new musical ground so what you going to do? New York isn't very new these days either  :chuckle:.

    My fave bands are probably a bit similar to those already mentioned

    Yes up to about 1977 - Close to the edge
    Genesis up to round about the same - up to Seconds Out I suppose
    Pink Floyd
    Jethro Tull
    King Crimson
    Rush
    Steve Hillage
    Steve Hackett (I reckon in the 70's you couldn't be a proper prog guitarist unless you were called Steve)
    Supertramp - up to even in the quietest moments - were they progressive?
    Marillian
    IQ
    It Bites
    Dream Theater
    Threshold
    Porcupine Tree
    Spocks Beard
    Riverside
    Big Big Train

    Hey DontheGreek what's Squackett like? I love Steve Hackett's guitar tone, actually one of my favourites ever



  • ShoogliePeg...
    I like Squackett...3 killer tunes then the rest is a little "lighter" musically. I wish is was more agressive, but overall its a good cd...depends on your taste in music. I posted 6 cuts...the 1st 3 are the tunes i like the best...the last 3 are on the lighter tunes.
    Enjoy,
    don













  • [quote author=ShoogliePeg link=topic=14264.msg217666#msg217666 date=1347148296]
    I love Steve Hackett's guitar tone, actually one of my favourites ever
    [/quote]

    I'm a fan of Steve Hackett's tone and playing, unfortunately his solo work is often too light for my liking. An instantly recognizable player, he was a crucial ingredient of the Genesis sound.  Wonderful on acoustic pieces too.
  • inmyhandsinmyhands Posts: 11,650
    King Crimson's early work, The Moody Blues, Pink Floyd, The Velvet Underground, Genesis, Yes and ELP were all favorites of mine as a teenager. One of the high school bands I played in used to do covers of ELPs material. We would have covered Yes also but nobody could sing that high. The mid '70s brought both The Strawbs and Steve Hacket's solo work to my attention.

    We never called the music prog back then. There were blues based bands like Led Zepp, Cream and Humble Pie and classical based bands like most of those listed above. Early Syd Barrett Pink Floyd and The Velvet Underground would have been psychedelic bands.

    I've been in love with the Synth keyboard sound since the first time I heard "Lucky Man".
  • HaffnerHaffner Posts: 7,890
    "Back in the day" Deep Purple were considered Progressive. Actually Purple, Sabbath, the Beatles, Stones, Hendrix, Beck, The Who, and Zeppelin could all be considered Progressive in the sense of forging new ground. Hard to use that term in the same sense these days.

    Much of what I hear "Progressive" today sounds a lot like what Crimson, Floyd, Zappa, Yes, and Purple/Rainbow did. I would include Malmsteen as one of the innovators, because he figures in alot of what's called "Prog-Metal" today, but it's hard to call the Rising Force material groundbreaking as it mostly just built upon the Purple and Rainbow templates. Not that it ain't great on its own :naughty:.

    I'm sure plenty of folks here won't like hearing this, but much of what could be considered groundbreaking in Rock today is happening in the Extreme Metal genres.The last half of Emperor's Prometheus, Ulcerate's Everything is Fire, Gorguts' Obscura. Plus there is the Post-Black Metal avante-garde, like Blut Aus Nord. I'd mention Ihsahn's solo material, but to me precious little of it sounds different from what he did in the latter years of Emperor and Peccatum, and yes I've listened to all of it.

    No disrespect meant to any of the above artists, all of whom I fully respect as musicians.

  • AgrippaAgrippa Posts: 5,928
    Yes !!!
    A couple of metal reviewers in Denmark (e-zines) actually called Prometheus Progressive Black Metal, after which they continued to slag it because it wasn't "In The Nightside Eclipse" or "Mysteriis Dom Sathanas".

    The Synth/Guitar Black Metal duo Limbonic Art is also what I would consider Prog.


    Devin Townshend, of course.

    Love this song and video.

    Opeth is prog too, as everyone knows.

    Is Akercocke progressive metal ?
    I'd say so.
    Love this video for obvious reasons.
  • HaffnerHaffner Posts: 7,890
    [quote author=Agrippa link=topic=14264.msg217709#msg217709 date=1347203018]
    Yes !!!
    A couple of metal reviewers in Denmark (e-zines) actually called Prometheus Progressive Black Metal, after which they continued to slag it because it wasn't "In The Nightside Eclipse" or "Mysteriis Dom Sathanas".

    The Synth/Guitar Black Metal duo Limbonic Art is also what I would consider Prog.


    Devin Townshend, of course.

    Love this song and video.

    Opeth is prog too, as everyone knows.
    [/quote]

    Not a fan of the bands besides Emperor, but I agree, they seem to be more "Progressive" in that experimental sense. Necrophagist too, though I think some of their disciples have made seem them a little obsolete and derivative now (as in, Necro never progressed musically much beyond Death's latter releases).

    Even Slayer, with their outside the box guitar parts...some guffaw and assert they did it out of musical incompetence, but the fact remains that their scales (or lack of, depending on who you ask) forged a whole new way of writing within their genre, and largely invented Death Metal...in fact, perhaps practically all Extreme.

    I hate to keep throwing Uli at people, but certainly the last, unpopular tracks on "Beyond the Astral Skies" were progressive in the above sense, plus his integration of the orchestra with heavy rock guitar has basically raced past his disciples' efforts. And no denying he and Blackmore were more than responsible for the worldwide metal guitarist obssession with diminished, Phrygian, and harmonic minor scales.
Sign In or Register to comment.